To Davekc

MrGautama

Not a Member
After reading in this forum the never ending story about how evil taxes are and see the now famous gospel "can't tax yourself into prosperity" as the prevalent dogma, I received an unexpected breath of fresh air; after a few days of throwing buckets of data and thoughts back and forth between Greg and I (which was fun, was as good for you as it was for me? :D) out of the blue comes Dave and with an open mind and asks for just one example where taxes and prosperity are in some way interconnected, just one country and he would be willing to consider the idea as plausible.



Well Dave, an open mind is the mark of a great man. I might not convince you but at least you are willing to look into it and that alone deserves my respect. So here we go:


The Human Development Index combines normalized measures of life expectancy, literacy, educational attainment, and GDP per capita for countries worldwide. It is claimed as a standard means of measuring human development—a concept that, according to the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), refers to the process of widening the options of persons, giving them greater opportunities for education, health care, income, employment, etc. The basic use of HDI is to measure a country's development.


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Source: The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) "groups 30 member countries sharing a commitment to the market economy. The OECD plays a prominent role in fostering governance in corporate activity. It helps governments to ensure the responsiveness of key economic areas with sectoral monitoring. By deciphering emerging issues and identifying policies that work, it helps policy-makers adopt strategic orientations."



In the first part are the 15 most developed countries in the world, in green the top 3.

In the second part are this same countries from most to least taxed, in red the 3 with higher taxes.



I can give you not 1 but 13 instances in which higher taxes not only don't interfere with the development of a society but correlate in grand measure with its prosperity. It is remarkable that only one of the countries (Japan) that have a superior development than us pays lower taxes and the other 13 have a higher rate.



It is not rocket science, just have to look for it with... an open mind.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I lived in England where they had VERY high taxes. It was like stepping back 30 years or more into history. I lived in Japan and it was very backward at the time compared to the US. They had much higher tax rates. I would like to know what organization produced this artical and the methodology used to come up with it. Layoutshooter
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I just re-read this, it is a UN thing, that explains everything. I, for the most part, discount everything that the Useless Neighbors organization puts out. Between the graft, corruption and the in-action when faced with threat they seem to do nothing. All they want is to be the seat of the New One World Socialist government. Layoutshooter
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The Ozarks were ahead of parts of Japan and Europe. I was in Japan in 1971-72. There were large areas, even around the base I was on, where people were still living in grass roof huts with hard dirt floors. That is kind of tough in the winter. Lot's of heavy snow there. Much of the country then had no sewers, cesspools or septic tanks. They had, and I can't spell this word because it is not an English word, "Benjoe" ditches. Those are open sewers than ran along the roads in front of the houses and huts. They did not use flush toliets at that time. They used a procilan "hole" in the floor over which you had to sort of squat to accomplish your goal. That ran straight into the "Benjoe" ditch. One guy I was stationed with had the mis-fortune, mostly self-imposed, to ride his motorcycle into a "Benjoe" ditch. He had been drinking, as we often did, and was VERY drunk. He hopped onto his Honda 750, a new one, and promptly drove into the ditch at a high rate of speed. He broke his arm, compound fracture, and all that "good stuff" got into his system. He spent over 3 months in the hospital recovering from the infection. Messed up the bike real bad as well. Layoutshooter
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
It still is very primitive (by US standards) in a lot of places outside of the major cities.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I am not surprised. I would be willing to bet that England has changed little since I was there as well. Layoutshooter
 

MrGautama

Not a Member
Hey at least you tried. Might want to throw someone other than Japan.
Not looking so good over there.
Global Economy Matters: Japan's "Unimaginable" Contraction

So you overlooked the pattern and instead focused in any detail that might justify your position; c'mon Dave you can do a lot better than that!

About Japan... could it be that it just reinforces the point because they are lacking in something? hint: the only only one below us in the tax scale.

Your data comes from a blogger that also participates in "Emerginvest", a.k.a. Yahoo for capitalists. Well, not the most reliable analysis focused on social development!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
England has MUCH higher taxes and they are way behind us in anything modern. Thier health care is AT LEAST 30 years behind us, most likely more. Thier rate of private home ownership is WAY lower than ours, with a much larger percentage of people living in public housing. Thier building standards are lower and unless you test in a very narrow subject range, thier education level is very sub-par compared to here. Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
England has MUCH higher taxes and they are way behind us in anything modern. Thier health care is AT LEAST 30 years behind us, most likely more. Thier rate of private home ownership is WAY lower than ours, with a much larger percentage of people living in public housing. Thier building standards are lower and unless you test in a very narrow subject range, thier education level is very sub-par compared to here. Layoutshooter

Even with all that they seem a much happier culture....
 

MrGautama

Not a Member
I just re-read this, it is a UN thing, that explains everything. I, for the most part, discount everything that the Useless Neighbors organization puts out. Between the graft, corruption and the in-action when faced with threat they seem to do nothing. All they want is to be the seat of the New One World Socialist government. Layoutshooter

OK Lay, how about posting your sources that refute that analysis and convincingly prove the characteristics you describe about the UN. If the UN is anything is just a semi-puppet of the US government and the rest of the G8, but unfortunately in many cases is the least biased source of information despite the enormous influence of the big ones.

So, lets see them...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Really? I saw a place where frowns out numbered smiles on a large basis. Where laziness was the norm. Where the sucide rate was VERY high. Where people do NOTHING except go to work, then home, then to the pub, then home. Then once a year take a "Holiday" where everything is planned for them. Then start over.

They live is sub-standard housing, have poor health and dental care, and a very old and crumbling infrastructure.

They still believe that being born into an incestutios hoard some how make one better than you.

Thier brightest young often leave the country as soon as they can for better chances at a life. Much like the best and brightest flee Detroit as soon as they can.

Layoutshooter
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You would be correct and the more we go down that path the more true it will be. Controlled lives are not worth living. It shows over there. When your will and fire are stilled you lose hope. No hope, no drive. No drive, no life. Layoutshooter
 

MrGautama

Not a Member
England has MUCH higher taxes and they are way behind us in anything modern. Thier health care is AT LEAST 30 years behind us, most likely more.

Lets see, according to the CIA World Factbook:

The life expectancy of the UK ranks in #26 of the countries that are members of the UN. Let see some more... Japan #2, Sweden #5, Australia $6, Norway #14, Canada #10, Iceland #9, and the good ol' US of A?... #30 !!!. Proud?



Thier rate of private home ownership is WAY lower than ours, with a much larger percentage of people living in public housing. Thier building standards are lower and unless you test in a very narrow subject range

In reality home ownership in the UK is exactly the same as ours at 69%, about the building standards I have no idea.



thier education level is very sub-par compared to here. Layoutshooter


OECD/PISA Study:

Reading Literacy: UK #7, US #15
Mathematical Literacy: UK #8, US #19
Scientific Literacy: UK #4, US #14


You make me loose hope in humankind Lay ;)
 
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