The world has gone crazy

AMonger

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Legal tender isn't legal tender anymore, the court has, in effect, ruled. This ranks up there with Kelo and the upholding of Obama's CommieCare in terms of sheer, in-your-face outrageousness. This is a thumb in the eye of the American people.


Florida: Court Approves Detaining Motorists at Toll Booth US Court of Appeals upholds right of toll road operators to detain drivers for using large denomination currency.

Motorists can be held indefinitely at toll booths if they pay with large denomination bills, according to a federal appeals court ruling handed down Wednesday. A family of drivers -- Joel, Deborah and Robert Chandler -- filed suit last year arguing they were effectively being held hostage by the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) and the private contractor in charge of the state's toll road, Faneuil, Inc.

Under FDOT policies in place at the time, motorists who paid with $50 bills, and occasionally even $5 bills, were not given permission to proceed until the toll collector filled out a "Bill Detection Report" with data about the motorist's vehicle and details from his driver's license. Many of those who chose to pay cash did so to avoid the privacy implications of installing a SunPass transponder that recorded their driving habits. They were likewise unwilling to provide personal information to the toll collector, but they had no alternative because the toll barrier would not be raised without compliance. FDOT policy does not allow passengers to exit their vehicle, and backing up is illegal and usually impossible while other cars wait behind. FDOT dropped the Bill Detection Reports in 2010.

A three-judge panel of the Eleventh Circuit US Court of Appeals did not buy the argument that these motorist detentions rose to the level of a constitutional violation.

"The fact that a person is not free to leave on his own terms at a given moment, however, does not, by itself, mean that the person has been 'seized' within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment," the court wrote in its unsigned decision. "In Florida, a person's right and liberty to use a highway is not absolute; it may be regulated in the public interest through reasonable and reasonably executed regulations."

The judges found it was reasonable for Fanueil to set regulations for use of the road -- including the types of acceptable payment. The court decided that drivers implicitly agreed to those conditions by choosing to use the toll road.

"The Chandlers have not alleged that they were forced to pay their tolls with large-denomination bills, thereby subjecting themselves to whatever delay was caused by completion of the Bill Detection Report," the court ruled. "They chose to pay their toll with large-denomination bills. Nor have they alleged that they asked to withdraw the large report-triggering bill in favor of a smaller delay-free bill and were denied that opportunity."

The court dismissed the lawsuit in its entirety. A copy of the decision is available in a 100k PDF file at the source link below.

Source: Chandler v. FDOT (US Court of Appeals, Eleventh Circuit, 9/19/2012)
 
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OldGuy

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Get out, duct tape your license plate, drive through the 'barrier'. Send a bill to the DOT for new paint and windshield.
 

cheri1122

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'Legal tender' isn't legal, if it's counterfeit - but why don't toll booths have the same technology as the clerks at WalMart for instant detection? :confused:
 

bobwg

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No one forces you to use the toll road you choose to use the toll road then your subject to toll road rules. YOU dont like the toll road go some other way, just like if you dont like the way Walmart, BankofAmerica due business go some where else. OP says Florida dropped the required bill reports in 2010 so maybe they have switched to the tech that Walmart uses
 

layoutshooter

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If the money is no good, one should look at who is backing it. I can't REALLY blame the toll road TOO much, the money can't be trusted.
 

AMonger

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ISo Bobwg goes into a store one day. The proprietor, a seedy looking fellow, helps him find what he's looking for. Bobwg pays, and just when he's about to leave, the owner pulls out a shotgun. Thinking it's a robbery, Bobwg raises his hands. Instead of demanding money, the shotgun-wielding proprietor demands he approach the counter, and Bobwg does so. As Bobwg reaches the counter, the owner hits him with the shotgun butt, rendering him unconscious.
When Bobwg comes to, he's tied to a chair. He finds that now there are more people in the room; there's a security guard named Zed, and some big guy they call the Gimp, who's wearing a leather suit that covers him completely.
The 3 of them grab Bob, bend him over a chair, and sodomize him repeatedly. And then it gets strange. Somebody runs in from the other room with a samurai sword and attacks his assailants. His ordeal over, Bob contacts the police to press charges.
The cop says, "If you don't like the way they do business, take your businesses elsewhere." Or, to put it your way, no one forces you to do business with that store if you do then you follow their rules or go elsewhere. Gee, it's a shame that store didn't post a sign outside about the forcible sodomy policy so you'd know not to go in there, right? Likewise, the toll road could post a sign saying, "If you drive past this point, we'll let you go when we GD feel like it. Proceed at your own risk."

Bob, we have severe restrictions on when, how, and under what circumstances a private citizen may detain someone, and for good reason. You just worship anything that resembles authority to the degree that you don't see how important it is.
Payment for services rendered was offered. If they reject it, then so be it.
 
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bobwg

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ISo Bobwg goes into a store one day. The proprietor, a seedy looking fellow, helps him find what he's looking for. Bobwg pays, and just when he's about to leave, the owner pulls out a shotgun. Thinking it's a robbery, Bobwg raises his hands. Instead of demanding money, the shotgun-wielding proprietor demands he approach the counter, and Bobwg does so. As Bobwg reaches the counter, the owner hits him with the shotgun butt, rendering him unconscious.
When Bobwg comes to, he's tied to a chair. He finds that now there are more people in the room; there's a security guard named Zed, and some big guy they call the Gimp, who's wearing a leather suit that covers him completely.
The 3 of them grab Bob, bend him over a chair, and sodomize him repeatedly. And then it gets strange. Somebody runs in from the other room with a samurai sword and attacks his assailants. His ordeal over, Bob contacts the police to press charges.
The cop says, "If you don't like the way they do business, take your businesses elsewhere." Or, to put it your way, no one forces you to do business with that store if you do then you follow their rules or go elsewhere. Gee, it's a shame that store didn't post a sign outside about the forcible sodomy policy so you'd know not to go in there, right? Likewise, the toll road could post a sign saying, "If you drive past this point, we'll let you go when we GD feel like it. Proceed at your own risk."

Bob, we have severe restrictions on when, how, and under what circumstances a private citizen may detain someone, and for good reason. You just worship anything that resembles authority to the degree that you don't see how important it is.
Payment for services rendered was offered. If they reject it, then so be it.

Did the idiot drivers offer to pay with a different bill? I think some of these people pay with big bills on purpose to cheat(steal), or just to cause problems, and to be able to get stupid lawyers involved you know your planning to use the stupid toll road how hard is it to have/get change before you get on the road?????????????? oh wait its too hard for people to get id to show for voting and it must be just as difficult to get change
 

AMonger

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Did the idiot drivers offer to pay with a different bill?
It doesn't say, afaik, but maybe that was the only bill they had. The story said even people with $5 bills were detained, so it want just the denomination of the bill.
We've had this exact debate before, before the court case, several months ago, and as I pointed out then, if the tollway is going to restrict what denominations of currency you can use, the moral and ethical--and should be legal--obligation is theirs to post it in plain view before you enter the tollway, so you can decide to either take another route or get change before you incur a debt by driving on the tollway. But then again, even paying with a $5 could get you detained.
Simply, they have absolutely no authority or right to demand your ID to allow you to leave the tollway. It is unquestionably false detention, and those who did it belong in prison.
I think some of these people pay with big bills on purpose to cheat(steal),
Hah?
...oh wait its too hard for people to get id to show for voting and it must be just as difficult to get change
Showing ID should certainly be required before voting. But if they're going to detain someone for using a $5 bill, getting or having smaller bills isn't the issue.
 
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