The Trump Card...

Shotcallerj

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The vaccine was politicized from the very beginning because Trump was involved, Biden and Harris and most of the left, especially in the news media, downplayed the vaccine and even induced fear over it. Now that Biden is president, "Oh, yeah, well, that was just political rhetoric. We didn't really mean that," just isn't working to convince people to take it. Another factor that vaccine is only approved for emergency use and not yet for general use. These abs many other factors have caused vaccine hesitance.

I take it you weren't a Boy Scout.

If you had covid you don't need the vaccine, because you're already immunized. The reason you don't hear very many stories about people getting covid and surviving and thus being immunized is it doesn't stoke enough fear into people to keep them glued to the news for their next fear fix.
I'm glad we can agree on the fact that if you've had covid you don't need a vaccine. The thing is the vaccines are being pushed for those who have had covid. That's where the issue lies because they are blatantly misleading the general public into thinking that they need something that they really don't.

No I was never a boy scout.. I had a job at 10 years old.

But at the end of the day nothing is going to change the fact that less than 1% of people who have covid actually die from it.
 

Turtle

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Ummmm that's not the CDC..... That's John Hopkins and it is very well known as a pro liberal anti-truth organization. If I had a dollar for every lie that they printed I would have that shiny new Silverado I want.
I posted both. That is what "cdc.gov" means. I guess you missed that. And if the Johns Hopkins numbers are accurate, I'm not going to dismiss the numbers just because I don't agree with their politics. That would be stupid.

So....(I specifically use that word because you showed me how much you loved it) you're now admitting that you made a false statement?
It's a false statement only to the mind-numbingly pedantic. My statement is true. And it's verifiable.

From the CDC out of 120.2 Million infections, 767,000 people died. Which is a lot but non the less... However whenever you do the math.....only 0.0006391 percent of covid patients died.
767,000 divided by 120,200,000 = .0063810316. As a percentage that's .63810316, or 0.638 percent. Raise your hand if your were a math major.

The ridiculous number you posted is statistically zero, by the way. Soooo, with that number you're saying that nobody died of covid.

According to the data table at COVID Data Tracker, as of today, Saturday, July 31, 2021 3:02 PM ET, the number of covid deaths in the US is 610,873.

The total number of cases 34,926,462.

If you do the math, 34,962,462 divided by 610,873 is 0.0174902628, 1.749 percent. 100 minus 1.749 = 98.251. You gotta do a lot of rounding to get that up to 99.

But if you look deeper into the breakdowns, by age, you'll see my numbers are from the CDC. They are the official numbers, not estimates. And there's no reason to think they're inaccurate. I won't say you didn't get your numbers from the CDC, but there's the link to where I got mine. If you can navigate data tables, you'll see the same numbers.
 

coalminer

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Ummmm that's not the CDC..... That's John Hopkins and it is very well known as a pro liberal anti-truth organization. If I had a dollar for every lie that they printed I would have that shiny new Silverado I want.

So....(I specifically use that word because you showed me how much you loved it) you're now admitting that you made a false statement? I appreciate you doing so. It's much better if people are honest and don't pretend to know what their talking about..... By posting statements they don't know to be true or not. Now we're starting to have a dialogue.

From the CDC out of 120.2 Million infections, 767,000 people died. Which is a lot but non the less... However whenever you do the math.....only 0.0006391 percent of covid patients died.

120.2 Million
Estimated Total Infections

101.8 Million
Estimated Symptomatic Illnesses

6.2 Million
Estimated Hospitalizations

767,000
Estimated Total Deaths


To me I think that there were much higher asymptotic infections than they thought, which would make the actual death percentage lower but that is only my opinion.



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Turtle

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I'm glad we can agree on the fact that if you've had covid you don't need a vaccine. The thing is the vaccines are being pushed for those who have had covid.
At this point we know unambiguously that having survived covid gives you the same antibodies that the vaccine gives you. And the natural antibodies are just as effective as the vaccine. I have no idea why people are pushing covid survivors to get the vaccine. There's certainly no science behind it. At least not yet. It could be that the Delta or some other variant isn't handled by the natural immunity, but this far there's been nothing on that.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Well even if you've had covid, you need to get vaccinated anyway because you might still get it," as a way to scare people into getting the vaccine who haven't had it.
No I was never a boy scout.. I had a job at 10 years old.
The Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared."
Words to live by.


But at the end of the day nothing is going to change the fact that less than 1% of people who have covid actually die from it.
But that's not a fact. It's not even an Alternative Fact. It's just incorrect.

To me I think that there were much higher asymptotic infections than they thought, which would make the actual death percentage lower but that is only my opinion.
The same people who estimate the asymptomatic infections are the same people who estimate the number of annual flu deaths. They're just guessing.
 

RLENT

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Any parts of federal property that is open to the public, citizens have a right to be. That's not even a difficult thing to figure out.

Problem is that building is currently closed to the public.

The other problem is, at the time of the riot - January 6th - it was also closed to the public, although possibly for different reasons.

Just because they are currently violating people's constitutional rights by banning them from buildings they have every right to be in... Does not make it right.

They aren't violating anyone's constitutional rights.

There's a pandemic currently and some number of the staff and elected officials are unvaccinated.

It's a Public Health measure.

Hence why the 3000 pissed off American storm the capitol building.

The reason why some number of pissed off Americans stormed the Capitol is because they were unhappy that their guy lost.

And some number of them were willing to commit violence against elected officials and their fellow citizens due to that unhappiness ... in furtherance of an unreasonable belief that that violence would somehow change the outcome.
 
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RLENT

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The house belongs to the people.. not to the government.

Actually, it's both: it belongs to the Government ... which is the people.

And that means all of the people (citizens) ... not just some.

Not to pelosi not to Biden not to Kamala Harris.... It belongs to the people.

I'm unaware of anyone claiming that Pelosi, Biden, or Kamala Harris have any legitimate claim of ownership on the House, beyond what is provided by virtue of the fact that are each citizens of this country as well.

If I enter your home and lock you out,, you're going to make entry to your house because you paid for it you own it.

Now you've gone into individual ownership vs. collective ownership.

Just hazarding a guess here, but I'd bet that the two different types of ownership might convey different rights.

As American citizens who pay taxes we own that building. Despite us allowing them to secure certain areas of that building.

No argument with that here.
 

Shotcallerj

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The vaccine was politicized from the very beginning because Trump was involved, Biden and Harris and most of the left, especially in the news media, downplayed the vaccine and even induced fear over it. Now that Biden is president, "Oh, yeah, well, that was just political rhetoric. We didn't really mean that," just isn't working to convince people to take it. Another factor that vaccine is only approved for emergency use and not yet for general use. These abs many other factors have caused vaccine hesitance.

I take it you weren't a Boy Scout.

If you had covid you don't need the vaccine, because you're already immunized. The reason you don't hear very many stories about people getting covid and surviving and thus being immunized is it doesn't stoke enough fear into people to keep them glued to the news for their next fear fix.
You didn't post anything from the cdc.. you just said cdc.gov. which ironically I was the one who posted from the CDC. Lol
I posted both. That is what "cdc.gov" means. I guess you missed that. And if the Johns Hopkins numbers are accurate, I'm not going to dismiss the numbers just because I don't agree with their politics. That would be stupid.


It's a false statement only to the mind-numbingly pedantic. My statement is true. And it's verifiable.


767,000 divided by 120,200,000 = .0063810316. As a percentage that's .63810316, or 0.638 percent. Raise your hand if your were a math major.

The ridiculous number you posted is statistically zero, by the way. Soooo, with that number you're saying that nobody died of covid.

According to the data table at COVID Data Tracker, as of today, Saturday, July 31, 2021 3:02 PM ET, the number of covid deaths in the US is 610,873.

The total number of cases 34,926,462.

If you do the math, 34,962,462 divided by 610,873 is 0.0174902628, 1.749 percent. 100 minus 1.749 = 98.251. You gotta do a lot of rounding to get that up to 99.

But if you look deeper into the breakdowns, by age, you'll see my numbers are from the CDC. They are the official numbers, not estimates. And there's no reason to think they're inaccurate. I won't say you didn't get your numbers from the CDC, but there's the link to where I got mine. If you can navigate data tables, you'll see the same numbers.
Hey all I did was go off the CDC website which I absolutely posted a link for. So if you got a problem with what the numbers are you can take it up with them. I figured out the percentage from an online percentage calculator and that's what came up with it.

Okay so let's go with your calculations for second..... are you really trying to play semantics with 99% and 98%? You're seriously really going out on a limb at this point. I'm okay if you want to get stuck.. but you're not going to convince me or over half the population who hasn't that it's the best thing.....

98% survival rate... Those odds are better than living with my ex-wife.
 

Shotcallerj

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The vaccine was politicized from the very beginning because Trump was involved, Biden and Harris and most of the left, especially in the news media, downplayed the vaccine and even induced fear over it. Now that Biden is president, "Oh, yeah, well, that was just political rhetoric. We didn't really mean that," just isn't working to convince people to take it. Another factor that vaccine is only approved for emergency use and not yet for general use. These abs many other factors have caused vaccine hesitance.

I take it you weren't a Boy Scout.

If you had covid you don't need the vaccine, because you're already immunized. The reason you don't hear very many stories about people getting covid and surviving and thus being immunized is it doesn't stoke enough fear into people to keep them glued to the news for their next fear fix.
You didn't post anything from the cdc.. you just said cdc.gov. which ironically I was the one who posted from the CDC. Lol
I posted both. That is what "cdc.gov" means. I guess you missed that. And if the Johns Hopkins numbers are accurate, I'm not going to dismiss the numbers just because I don't agree with their politics. That would be stupid.


It's a false statement only to the mind-numbingly pedantic. My statement is true. And it's verifiable.


767,000 divided by 120,200,000 = .0063810316. As a percentage that's .63810316, or 0.638 percent. Raise your hand if your were a math major.

The ridiculous number you posted is statistically zero, by the way. Soooo, with that number you're saying that nobody died of covid.

According to the data table at COVID Data Tracker, as of today, Saturday, July 31, 2021 3:02 PM ET, the number of covid deaths in the US is 610,873.

The total number of cases 34,926,462.

If you do the math, 34,962,462 divided by 610,873 is 0.0174902628, 1.749 percent. 100 minus 1.749 = 98.251. You gotta do a lot of rounding to get that up to 99.

But if you look deeper into the breakdowns, by age, you'll see my numbers are from the CDC. They are the official numbers, not estimates. And there's no reason to think they're inaccurate. I won't say you didn't get your numbers from the CDC, but there's the link to where I got mine. If you can navigate data tables, you'll see the same numbers.
Hey all I did was go off the CDC website which I absolutely posted a link for. So if you got a problem with what the numbers are you can take it up with them. I figured out the percentage from an online percentage calculator and that's what came up with it.

Okay so let's go with your calculations for second..... are you really trying to play semantics with 99% and 98%? You're seriously really going out on a limb at this point. I'm okay if you want to get stuck.. but you're not going to convince me or over half the population who hasn't that it's the best thing.....

98% survival rate... Those odds are better than living with my ex-wife.
I posted both. That is what "cdc.gov" means. I guess you missed that. And if the Johns Hopkins numbers are accurate, I'm not going to dismiss the numbers just because I don't agree with their politics. That would be stupid.


It's a false statement only to the mind-numbingly pedantic. My statement is true. And it's verifiable.


767,000 divided by 120,200,000 = .0063810316. As a percentage that's .63810316, or 0.638 percent. Raise your hand if your were a math major.

The ridiculous number you posted is statistically zero, by the way. Soooo, with that number you're saying that nobody died of covid.

According to the data table at COVID Data Tracker, as of today, Saturday, July 31, 2021 3:02 PM ET, the number of covid deaths in the US is 610,873.

The total number of cases 34,926,462.

If you do the math, 34,962,462 divided by 610,873 is 0.0174902628, 1.749 percent. 100 minus 1.749 = 98.251. You gotta do a lot of rounding to get that up to 99.

But if you look deeper into the breakdowns, by age, you'll see my numbers are from the CDC. They are the official numbers, not estimates. And there's no reason to think they're inaccurate. I won't say you didn't get your numbers from the CDC, but there's the link to where I got mine. If you can navigate data tables, you'll see the same numbers.
Yeah, were going to stick with the numbers that are on the CDC website.. here's the break down.
 

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Shotcallerj

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To me I think that there were much higher asymptotic infections than they thought, which would make the actual death percentage lower but that is only my opinion.



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Yeah I don't know....
At this point we know unambiguously that having survived covid gives you the same antibodies that the vaccine gives you. And the natural antibodies are just as effective as the vaccine. I have no idea why people are pushing covid survivors to get the vaccine. There's certainly no science behind it. At least not yet. It could be that the Delta or some other variant isn't handled by the natural immunity, but this far there's been nothing on that.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Well even if you've had covid, you need to get vaccinated anyway because you might still get it," as a way to scare people into getting the vaccine who haven't had it.

The Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared."
Words to live by.



But that's not a fact. It's not even an Alternative Fact. It's just incorrect.


The same people who estimate the asymptomatic infections are the same people who estimate the number of annual flu deaths. They're just guessing.
I prefer in omnia paratus. All things prepared. Which is why I don't leave the house with anything less than two firearms, spare mags, ammo, light, knife, tourniquet, quick clot, first aid kit, water, MRE's, cash stash, change of clothes, etc. Which is just the amount of things that go with me up to the liquor store around the block.

Yeah I'm aware they do guessing more than anything. That's all it's been from the start is guessing.
 

Shotcallerj

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Problem is that building is currently closed to the public.

The other problem is, at the time of the riot - January 6th - it was also closed to the public, although possibly for different reasons.



They aren't violating anyone's constitutional rights.

There's a pandemic currently and some number of the staff and elected officials are unvaccinated.

It's a Public Health measure.



The reason why some number of pissed off Americans stormed the Capitol is because they were unhappy that their guy lost.

And some number of them were willing to commit violence against elected officials and their fellow citizens due to that unhappiness ... in furtherance of an unreasonable belief that that violence would somehow change the outcome.
Right now it is yes.. violating people's rights to enter a building they have a right to be in. But it doesn't make it right and it doesn't change the fact that the people have the right to be there. The only time they can close off a certain section of property if we the people allow it to happen. Restricted areas of government buildings were allowed decades ago by the people.

The 14th amendment clearly is being violated under the guise of security and the pandemic. For whatever reason Democrats believe that civil liberties are suspended and they have to totalitarian power given to them.... In times of crisis which could not be any further from the truth. Democrats love this pandemic because it's giving them more power than they ever imagined they would have and now they're doing everything they can to prolong that power and not give it back.

You're going to have a lot of cases snake its way through the federal court system and possibly even get up to the supreme Court over things that have happened in this country by Democrat politicians. Be prepared to see a lot of rulings (which there are already been quite a few) that Americans civil liberties were violated by such politicians.

The unfortunate thing is nothing will happen to them and they'll just be able to go on sponging off the taxpayers dollars..... To find another way to take away our rights and control us like the subjects they want us to be.
 
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Shotcallerj

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Actually, it's both: it belongs to the Government ... which is the people.

And that means all of the people (citizens) ... not just some.



I'm unaware of anyone claiming that Pelosi, Biden, or Kamala Harris have any legitimate claim of ownership on the House, beyond what is provided by virtue of the fact that are each citizens of this country as well.



Now you've gone into individual ownership vs. collective ownership.

Just hazarding a guess here, but I'd bet that the two different types of ownership might convey different rights.



No argument with that here.
The government and the people are not the same thing the government governs the people.

Well that sure interesting because pelosi seems to think that's her personal house and she can do whatever the hell she wants in..... Those other two I was just throwing in there because they're Democrats that I hate. Lol

Ok..... So you're saying that you would not remain outside of your house if I went into your house and locked you out? Great! There's your explanation of January 6th.
 
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Turtle

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You didn't post anything from the cdc.. you just said cdc.gov.
Correct. You asked where I got my numbers from, so I replied "cdc.gov."
are you really trying to play semantics with 99% and 98%?
Look, Dood, I said vaccinated people aren't dying, and you flipped out because there are an extremely small number who have, yet those numbers are hundreds of thousandths of a percent, and you think that's critically important. But now you want to dismiss an entire, significant percentage point as semantics?
but you're not going to convince me or over half the population who hasn't that it's the best thing.....
I haven't tried to do that.
 

Shotcallerj

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Correct. You asked where I got my numbers from, so I replied "cdc.gov."

Look, Dood, I said vaccinated people aren't dying, and you flipped out because there are an extremely small number who have, yet those numbers are hundreds of thousandths of a percent, and you think that's critically important. But now you want to dismiss an entire, significant percentage point as semantics?

I haven't tried to do that.
But then you posted J Hopkins like that was your source....so that's where I'm coming from.

Yes you did. You made a clear statement that the only people that are dying are the unvaccinated. I then posted statistics that prove that it does have 99% survival rate.....you then posted your information that came out one percent less than the statistics show.....so I just pointed out how ridiculous it is to be arguing about such a small difference.
 

Turtle

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.... I just pointed out how ridiculous it is to be arguing about such a small difference.
But you did it while arguing over a much, much smaller difference.

The difference between "No one who is vaccinated are dying from covid" and those rare exceptions who died, is so small as to be statistically insignificant. Statistically zero. Yet you make it out to be a big, fat hairy deal. And the number of those exceptions who died is a tiny fraction of the difference between 99 and 98 percent.

The current number of cases reported is 37,722,621.
1 percent of that is 377,226 dead.
2 percent of that is 754,452 dead
That's a difference of 376,226. Dead.

I realize "small difference" is subjective, but to me, that's not a small difference.
 
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danthewolf00

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But you did it while arguing over a much, much smaller difference.

The difference between "No one who is vaccinated are dying from covid" and those rare exceptions who died, is so small as to be statistically insignificant. Statistically zero. Yet you make it out to be a big, fat hairy deal. And the number of those exceptions who died is a tiny fraction of the difference between 99 and 98 percent.

The current number of cases reported is 37,722,621.
1 percent of that is 377,226 dead.
2 percent of that is 754,452 dead
That's a difference of 376,226. Dead.

I realize "small difference" is subjective, but to me, that's not a small difference.
That 2% is much smaller when you compare it to the whole population of America.
 

Shotcallerj

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But you did it while arguing over a much, much smaller difference.

The difference between "No one who is vaccinated are dying from covid" and those rare exceptions who died, is so small as to be statistically insignificant. Statistically zero. Yet you make it out to be a big, fat hairy deal. And the number of those exceptions who died is a tiny fraction of the difference between 99 and 98 percent.

The current number of cases reported is 37,722,621.
1 percent of that is 377,226 dead.
2 percent of that is 754,452 dead
That's a difference of 376,226. Dead.

I realize "small difference" is subjective, but to me, that's not a small difference.
I honestly can't figure out why the CDC is saying one thing and your source is saying another. Maybe the CDC is factoring in all of the cases that weren't officially proven through tests.... Maybe they're factoring in cases that were in this country before covid was actually a serious issue. You have to take it up with them. I posted right from the CDC, not covid tracker websites ....right from the source. I even included a screenshot of it where it says it right in it. Do you think I hacked the CDC website and put in my own numbers? Lol

And yes.. 1% is definitely a small number. Not as significant as saying that the only people that are dying from covid are the invaccinated ones.

The world we live in is dangerous. There is crime fatalities.... disease fatalities...vehicle fatalities... Medical malpractice fatalities, etc. Though we take proper precautions to avoid being a victim of such things, there's no guarantee that we're not. We don't stop living our lives just because there's a possibility you might become a victim of something. If someone told me I had a 98% chance of not getting into a fatal car accident tomorrow, I'd say those are pretty good odds and I'm going to take my trip. I'm not going to wrap myself in bubble wrap or hockey gear to prevent myself from getting injury because I have a 2% chance of getting into a fatality accident. Even though if someone is in an accident while wearing all that protective gear they would probably fare a little better. For whatever reason when covid started it got into people's minds that they are never going to die and therefore have to do every single thing possible as well as not take any risks.

If I get colvin again and die.. so be it. There's nothing I'm going to do nor you're going to do to stop it from happening. If it's in the cards it's in the cards everyone has their time to go. To quote a line from an excellent movie.... You can't fight fate.
 
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Shotcallerj

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Percent of the population of the United States is about 6.6 million out of 330 million. There's 9.9 million people who live in Michigan alone. 5.9 million live in Atlanta. So that is a lot of people.. whenever we're talking about percentages it's really not. Atlanta is a big city but it doesn't compare to New York or say Los Angeles.
 

Turtle

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Wherever you're getting your information is off. I posted right from the CDC not covid tracker websites ....right from the source. I even included a screenshot of it where it says it right in it. Do you think I hacked the CDC website and put in my own numbers? Lol come on man. You're not dumb.
I posted the actual link to where I got my numbers at the CDC website.
Here it is again...
COVID Data Tracker

Here's the screen shot.

Screenshot_20210801-183718_Chrome Beta.jpg
And yes.. 1% is definitely a small number. Not as significant as saying that the only people that are dying from covid are the invaccinated ones.
I see that "statistically zero" is a concept that has you befuddled.

Percent of the population of the United States is about 6.6 million out of 330 million.
That sentence doesn't make any sense, but OK.

Number of people with at least one dose of the vaccine:
COVID Data Tracker

191,498,983

Number of people you said that were vaccinated and have been hospitalized or died (I'll go ahead and combine them, even though the number of people who were hospitalized is way more ths than the number who died, but let's go with the bigger number)... 6,587.

6587 divided by 191,498,983 = 0.000034397.
As a percent that's 0.00344 which is statistically zero.

That's a tiny number on relation to the vaccinated population, and it's a miniscule percentage compared to the number of people who died while not having been vaccinated.

But you think that tiny percentage is the most important one, more important than the 1 (or 2) percent who died unvaccinated. That's exactly what you are arguing.
 

Shotcallerj

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I posted the actual link to where I got my numbers at the CDC website.
Here it is again...
COVID Data Tracker

Here's the screen shot.

View attachment 20716

I see that "statistically zero" is a concept that has you befuddled.


That sentence doesn't make any sense, but OK.

Number of people with at least one dose of the vaccine:
COVID Data Tracker

191,498,983

Number of people you said that were vaccinated and have been hospitalized or died (I'll go ahead and combine them, even though the number of people who were hospitalized is way more ths than the number who died, but let's go with the bigger number)... 6,587.

6587 divided by 191,498,983 = 0.000034397.
As a percent that's 0.00344 which is statistically zero.

That's a tiny number on relation to the vaccinated population, and it's a miniscule percentage compared to the number of people who died while not having been vaccinated.

But you think that tiny percentage is the most important one, more important than the 1 (or 2) percent who died unvaccinated. That's exactly what you are arguing.
Okay we'll just take your information because obviously my information that I got from the same organization is completely wormg. I've been wrong the whole time, and its the worst thing to ever hit this country, and we need to get all the vaccinations we can get our hands on and we need to get stuck 100 times just to make sure that we don't get the virus that has a 2% death rate because 1% was obviously way too off whenever it comes to percentages.

We will stop going to work, will stop going to the grocery store to buy food, will stop our lives because we might get an illness or get hurt on the way to and from. We can just shut down the entire country and then we can let the government take care of us and everything will be all right. So you can feel better about yourself and feel safer.

Sound good?

Frankly I'm just tired of arguing with you. I tried to see your side but honestly I don't even think you know where you stand.
 
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