Tandem Axle Straight Truck Help

[rbCPC]

This is my first post here but I've been browsing this site for quite a while now and have learned a whole lot here. Everyone is extremely helpful and informative and I thank you for that as I am a total outsider and just learning the ropes.

I have done my best to google and read-up up on this topic, but there are still a lot of unknowns and I was hoping someone may have a little bit of wisdom to throw my way.

My company is looking for a tandem axle straight truck to do some city driving and local deliveries. Our biggest issue is figuring out exactly what we should be getting. I have contacted a few leasing companies (ryder, penske, etc), and they all seem to be way too expensive for us. Somewhere in the $2200-2500/month range pre-tax. They also gave me an estimate of about $10,000/yr in insurance for a truck like this.

If we buy new, it seems like we're looking at $100k+ after you add in the excise tax.

So it comes down to buying used. Lower payments, lower insurance, but I assume higher maintenance costs. I have been told that we can buy a used 33,000 GVW truck and add another axle and skip the excise tax. My worry though is that this type of truck wasn't built to handle the 30,000# of product we will be putting in it. Is it normal to convert a class 7 to a class 8 without doing anything other than adding the axle? Would the truck hold up? We would probably only be putting 1,000-1,500 miles a month on the truck, but we would be loading it very heavy each time (12 2,500# pallets). Are certain manufacturers or models better for this type of conversion?

I appreciate any and all help you have because I am really not too sure what to do.

 

[x06col]

I used a Heavy Pete 330 for loads like you are typing about. Did really well for that type application. I was otr with mine, it is still in service running otr with i'd estimate 750K+. Just don't skimp on the HP. Also, you'll need 4 axles to CARRY 30K.

 

[Rocketman]

Its doable, but your gonna have to get the axles and weight limits right. I had an unconventional 3 axle setup at one time that legally carry close to 26k. A day cab class 7 chasis, with a single drive axle + a lift axle will be just a little shy...I think. If so, you would have two options, you could add a second lift axle, or you could possibly add a heavier rated steer axle.

To answer one of your questions....the axle rating and the "bridge law" is what determines how much you can carry. It doesn't matter of it is a drive, a liftable or a steer axle.

 

[zorry]

You might be able to slip by with three axles.
Shop for a used liteweight class 8 daycab.
I bought a new 2004 Mack set up for Quik-Trip's tanker fleet. It had a big block engine,ten speed trans,one fuel tank,alum wheels, and wide base singles. The weight was between 13,400 to 14,300 lbs. i can't remember.
A tandem will haul 34,000 lbs everywhere and some states allow 36,000 or more. So check with the state(s) you will operate in.
Also a 13,000 plus steer axle is easier to find than in years past.
If the product is always the same, you'll figure out how to load the truck, and if you work with a good dealer you may pull it off. If a stake body will work, that may save you some weight.
If you can pull it off, you'll be way better off with three axles than four.

 

[highway star]

I don't think you have to pay excise tax on a used truck? Can someone tell me if that's the case?

 

[Rocketman]

A lot of this depends on where your located, what roads you'll using and whether it local work or regional. If your going to be on the interstate system or crossing scales, I would suggest sticking to the bridge laws. The DOT in my area has told the local trucks (dump trucks are what I'm familiar with) to just get the axle ratings right and their good. I wouldn't expect that leniency just anywhere...and was surprised to hear it here.

In order to carry 30,000 lbs, your likely going to need at least a 54k lb gvwr. That would give you up to 24,000lbs of empty weight, leaving 30k for payload. Some super heavy duty class 7's are likely to be capable, but none of the standard off the shelf setups...even class 8's are going to have a 30k payload without some modification.

If you want to educate yourself.(or confuse yourself, whichever the case may be )....the link below is a good explanation of the bridge laws.

I personally would just search for a heavy duty 3 axle truck (20,000 lb steer axle + standard tandems). I think they are probably out there, but I dont think your going to get by with much less than a 54,000 lb gross vehicle weight rating.

Here is the bridge law explanation: http://www.hendrickson-intl.com/Bridge-Laws

 

[zorry]

Call KW in Indianapolis. They usually have used Marathon Oil Class 8's that are super light. Tell them what you need and they should be able to assemble what you need.
Flying J Truck Sales in Indianapolis and Salt Lake City area would also have lightweight class 8 trucks available fromtheir tanker fleet.
Look at your useage. Cutting one pallet off would make a world of difference.
You can rent a truck from someone for a day to do a test run. Scale it empty, load your load, and see how it weighs on a cat scale. You'll see what you need to cut your trucks weight to.
Loading a 17,000 truck to 47,000 should do well with a 325hp or larger engine. Lot of tankers that blow by you with 80,000 lbs of gas have 325 or 350 hp engines.

 

[zorry]

As Rocketman suggested, a heavier, 16-20,000 steer would be more practical than a fourth axle.
These would more commonly found on used dumps, milk tankers. You may not want the off road rear suspension you'd usually find on these trucks.
No excise tax on used trucks.
If you buy the no excise tax 33,000 lb truck you are required to pay the excise tax if you add the extra axle to required capability with 6 months of purchase.
Good luck.
If you're in a good area, want to pay a decent rate, PM me and I'll discuss supplying you with a truck and driver.

 

[zorry]

Have you thought about a 26' trl you buy( very cheap) and
1) a tandem axle tractor ? They are cheap, you could switch into a rental tractor easily.
2) hire local driver/ cartage outfit to pull your trl.
This would give you at least 12/34/20 on your axles. 66,000 gross. You couldn't load it overweight.

Your useage seems minimal. My father put a straight truck into a drug store chain for 3 half days per week. Within two years he did ALL of their outbound freight covering 34 states every week

 

[Rocketman]

Have you thought about a 26' trl you buy( very cheap) and
2) hire local driver/ cartage outfit to pull your trl.
This would give you at least 12/34/20 on your axles. 66,000 gross.

This was gonna be my next suggestion. A company I worked for as a toolmaker asked me to takeover their shuttle operations from plant to plant (just a few miles), I put together some numbers and presented them...they about fell over! lol And I was actually giving them a pretty good price for what they were asking for. Anyway... I suggested the same thing to them. Just buy your own trailers and hire a local guy with a truck to come move them when ya want. There are generally plenty of local trucks looking for work.

As for a truck...here is a link to one for sale that would be pretty close to what I would be looking for. Note: the rear axles are 40,000lb rear +20,000 steer = 60,000. You won't be able to do that. Standard allowable is 34,000 on the rears + 20,000 on the steer = 54,000lbs. Zorry is correct, it depends on your state regs. Here is the truck: http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=3981517

I also saw a class 7 peterbuilt on that website that had a 14,600 lb steer axle, which would give you 34,000+14,600=48,600. The truck was light at something like 14,200 lbs. That would give you 4,000 lbs to work with for a bed or box. I'm not sure if that would be enough or not. If it had a 16,000 or 18,000 steer axle, I would think it would work with ease though.

We should have you sufficiently confused...or educated now!

 

[zorry]

Very easy to get confused.
Logic would make you think a 40,000 tandem would be good for 40,000 #.
It's not.
If they want to build they need a sharp salesman. I'd write that it must scale 30,000 # as delivered, legally in the area they need to run, or they should be able to walk away.
I'd be sure 30,000 # is the target weight. Every pound less could make the task easier and maybe cheaper.

 

[Rocketman]

I'd write that it must scale 30,000 # as delivered, legally in the area they need to run, or they should be able to walk away.
I'd be sure 30,000 # is the target weight. Every pound less could make the task easier and maybe cheaper.

Agreed...but to clarify.... it must be capable of scaling 30,000 lb of payload as delivered. Also...if the 30,000 lb of payload can be reduced....but the original poster seems to be pretty sure of what he is putting on it. A reminder to be certain doesn't hurt anything though.

I just wanted to clarify it a bit. We dont really know how much the original poster knows about trucks, so I hate to leave anything assumed. It's probably going to take a while for all this to sink in as it is...lol.

A couple questions for rbCPC

1. What size are these pallets? 40"x48", 48"x48"...or ?????. I know this is somewhat irrelevant, but how tall are they?

2. How sure are you of the weight? Have you weighed them? Will this be mainly the only thing you haul?

3. Is 12 pallets exactly the number you need? You cant get by with 10? 14 wont do you any good? The reason for Zorry's suggestion and my question is that going from 12 down to 10 pallets would drop you to 25,000 and then just a standard 10 wheeler could possibly handle it...the truck would likely be a lot cheaper and easier to find.

4. Are you wanting to use a regular dry box...or could a stake body or flatbed work ?

5. What state(s) will you be operating in?

Answer these questions and we can probably give you some more direct answers. For now I'm sticking with my yellow Pete...just 'cause I think it looks cool !

 

[guido4475]

This is my first post here but I've been browsing this site for quite a while now and have learned a whole lot here. Everyone is extremely helpful and informative and I thank you for that as I am a total outsider and just learning the ropes.

I have done my best to google and read-up up on this topic, but there are still a lot of unknowns and I was hoping someone may have a little bit of wisdom to throw my way.

My company is looking for a tandem axle straight truck to do some city driving and local deliveries. Our biggest issue is figuring out exactly what we should be getting. I have contacted a few leasing companies (ryder, penske, etc), and they all seem to be way too expensive for us. Somewhere in the $2200-2500/month range pre-tax. They also gave me an estimate of about $10,000/yr in insurance for a truck like this.

If we buy new, it seems like we're looking at $100k+ after you add in the excise tax.

So it comes down to buying used. Lower payments, lower insurance, but I assume higher maintenance costs. I have been told that we can buy a used 33,000 GVW truck and add another axle and skip the excise tax. My worry though is that this type of truck wasn't built to handle the 30,000# of product we will be putting in it. Is it normal to convert a class 7 to a class 8 without doing anything other than adding the axle? Would the truck hold up? We would probably only be putting 1,000-1,500 miles a month on the truck, but we would be loading it very heavy each time (12 2,500# pallets). Are certain manufacturers or models better for this type of conversion?

I appreciate any and all help you have because I am really not too sure what to do.

I'd go with a good used tandem axle daycab, and have it stretched, along with a box that will handle that kind of weight, with the thicker floor boards, and more cross members. Many boxes are not set up to handle that kind of weight.A 33k gvw truck, in my opinion, would not be the best route to go, as you'd be working the smaller engine and drivetrain to death, resulting in pre-mature wear and tear. Bottom line: don't expect a bot to do man's job.

 

[rbCPC]

Wow, thanks a lot, lot's of info here. To answer Rocketman's questions:

1. What size are these pallets? 40"x48", 48"x48"...or ?????. I know this is somewhat irrelevant, but how tall are they? *- 40x48, 60 inches max height.

2. How sure are you of the weight? Have you weighed them? Will this be mainly the only thing you haul? *- Yes these pallets are all 2,500lbs. This will be what we haul 90% of the time.

3. Is 12 pallets exactly the number you need? You cant get by with 10? 14 wont do you any good? The reason for Zorry's suggestion and my question is that going from 12 down to 10 pallets would drop you to 25,000 and then just a standard 10 wheeler could possibly handle it...the truck would likely be a lot cheaper and easier to find. *- Our deliveries would range from 9-12 pallets. The main goal was to keep the truck within the range of a class B CDL.

4. Are you wanting to use a regular dry box...or could a stake body or flatbed work ? *- I believe just a regular dry box.

5. What state(s) will you be operating in? *- New York & New Jersey only.

 

[Rocketman]

Wow, thanks a lot, lot's of info here. To answer Rocketman's questions:

1. What size are these pallets? 40"x48", 48"x48"...or ?????. I know this is somewhat irrelevant, but how tall are they? *- 40x48, 60 inches max height.

2. How sure are you of the weight? Have you weighed them? Will this be mainly the only thing you haul? *- Yes these pallets are all 2,500lbs. This will be what we haul 90% of the time.

3. Is 12 pallets exactly the number you need? You cant get by with 10? 14 wont do you any good? The reason for Zorry's suggestion and my question is that going from 12 down to 10 pallets would drop you to 25,000 and then just a standard 10 wheeler could possibly handle it...the truck would likely be a lot cheaper and easier to find. *- Our deliveries would range from 9-12 pallets. The main goal was to keep the truck within the range of a class B CDL.

4. Are you wanting to use a regular dry box...or could a stake body or flatbed work ? *- I believe just a regular dry box.

5. What state(s) will you be operating in? *- New York & New Jersey only.

Honestly, I'm just gonna stick with this: http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=3981517

It's a good solid truck that will get the job done and carry your original 30,000#. Obviously, you don't have to have that EXACT truck, but the 20,000# front axle with standard tandems on a good class 8 chasis. A 24' (inside, useable length) box would be minimum required for 12 pallets but, I would throw a 26' or 28' box on it and have plenty of room. If you work through a dealer for a turn-key setup, which is not a bad idea although they don't do alot for free, I would do as Zorry suggested. Get it in writing that the completed truck will legally scale a 30,000# payload in the states you'll be running in. Keep it legal. The last thing you want is a lawsuit that you have no chance of defending.

 

[zorry]

The 9LL and Chalmers suspension scream off road vehicle. Dump/ Mixer,etc.
May be double framed. Made ride rough.
I bought a heavy duty 2007 26' box from Hoffman Body, Louisville Ky. With l/g it was $6000 installed.
Morgan, one of the best bodies built.
There was one on the ground when I left. Former Paclease unit.

 

[Rocketman]

The 9LL and Chalmers suspension scream off road vehicle. Dump/ Mixer,etc.
May be double framed. Made ride rough.
I bought a heavy duty 2007 26' box from Hoffman Body, Louisville Ky. With l/g it was $6000 installed.
Morgan, one of the best bodies built.
There was one on the ground when I left. Former Paclease unit.

Your right about the transmission and rear suspension. Honestly I've never dealt with that kind of equipment. I kind of thought it might be a good thing...or at least not a bad thing, for the low mileage, short trips the OP will be running? I honestly don't know though.

I still think it would look cool!!!!

 

[Rocketman]

As for double frame...I would want double frame on that much length between the axles....and 30,000 lb payload. My Columbia expediter was doubled...I loved it.

 

[zorry]

Double frame good if it doesn't tip the scales tooo much.
The short trips may be okay, but if too rough could damage frt/ truck/ driver.
Would be a cool truck. If it didn't work I would think body could be moved to another chassis and little would be lost selling this to a off-road buyer.
If the flatbed body works it would be fantastic for building delivery and supplies to job sites.

 

[Rocketman]

I saw a different one...looked the same but shorter wb....made me want to price a new asphalt bed....but I didn't....those guys have to get outta bed waaaaay too early! Lol