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Stand or Kneel ? Unmoderated

Discussion in 'General Expediter Forum' started by BigStickJr, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. BigStickJr

    BigStickJr Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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    At first I was irritated by the protests.
    I feel people have the right to speak their minds.
    I also feel it's disrespectful to the flag and anthem.
    I just wish the networks wouldn't show it or talk about it. Without the attention it may just go away.
    Remember Dick Gregory ?
    If you want to protest go on a hunger strike.
     
  2. Steady Eddie

    Steady Eddie Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    November 11th I think, a boycott of all NFL is being organized. They are calling for: watch no game, buy no tickets, and buy no merchandise.

    Veterans Day weekend boycott.

    You know, like we did when fuel was over 4.00 per gallon. Lol


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  3. Turtle
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    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    I still am.
    Not to mention 35 USC §301. National anthem:
    U.S.C. Title 36 - PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, ANDORGANIZATIONS

    Protesting racial injustice (or whatever it is they think they're protesting - many don't even know) by protesting during the National Anthem makes exactly as much sense as the Westboro Baptist Church showing up at military funerals and protesting against gays. If you want to protest against gays, go to a gay pride parade and protest your little heart out. If you want to protest police officers killing black people, go the police station and have at it.

    Representative Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) says "There is no basis in the First Amendment that says you cannot kneel on the national anthem or in front of the flag."

    Nobody ever said there was, Sheila.

    CNN's Editor-at large Chris Cillizza, a journalist, who like most journalists, is supposed to know a thing or two about the First Amendment, because, you know, it was written explicitly for them, actually said "The.US is literally premised on the right of people to freely express their beliefs without fear of reprisal," and "The flag represents America -- and America represents the right to express your views without fear of retribution."

    OK, so he's an idiot. The only reprisals and retributions you are guaranteed to be free from are from those imposed by the government. Reprisals and retributions from those who disagree with you is standard throughout the history of history. As long as your rights aren't being violated with reprisals and retributions, you're fair game, including being ridiculed in public.

    And specifically on the comment of, "The.US is literally premised on the right of people to freely express their beliefs without fear of reprisal," do keep in mind that CNN is the network who got butthurt over a retweet about a wresting match and then terrorized the creator of that gif.

    I just think, in the end, these people who are taking a knee during the National Anthem to protest in favor of unity and togetherness are doing it in a way that creates division and animus. And isn't that funny.
     
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  4. Grizzly

    Grizzly Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    Prior to 2009 NFL players weren't on the field for the National Anthem. I found the Pittsburgh Steelers solution, albeit a failed attempt, to be the most palatable. I'm honestly tired of this crap ... let's get back to football! I don't expect football players to be my social, moral or political compass. Neither should you!!

    ESPN, now led by the powers that be at Disney, has taken the direction to shine more light on shenanigans rather than sports itself. I'm a salty guy in my mid 40s that still likes to listen to a ball game on the radio. Let's forget all this social media driven drama & get back to sports.

    As for USC Title 36 ... the question is enforcement. Can it be enforced? IMO, it cannot.
    Here's a little factoid ... in my neck of the woods the Slavic community, primarily Russian, raise their children to stand in school during the Pledge of Allegiance and not place their hand on their heart. Simply stand. Their Church leaders view that gesture as praying to a flag & they decided .. nope, we aren't going to do it. Has it created a firestorm in red, republican, conservative SC? No. Local school officials take it for what it is ... part of the immigration, assimilation process.

    We should all take this for what it is ... much ado about nothing ....
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
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  5. Kip life

    Kip life Active Expediter Owner/Operator

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    Until you are a victim of racial biase,you can't understand

    Sent from my SM-N900T using EO Forums mobile app
     
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  6. Turtle
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    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    I disagree. Most everyone has been a victim of some kind of invalid bias or discrimination. Most everyone has been witness to invalid bias or discrimination. It doesn't take a whole lot of understanding to say to yourself, "What if I were in his shoes?"
     
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  7. OntarioVanMan
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    OntarioVanMan Retired Expediter Owner/Operator

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    ..agreed, whether it be age, sex, religious or even old bald fat guy bias/discrimination...

    supposedly about shooting and bashing of black people?....well as a civilization we are still developing, still growing and learning...as long as people see colour, religion and sex and judge we will have some sort of discrimination..We have a ways to go...maybe never will achieve the goal...and complete 100% acceptance of anyone different in any way....
     
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  8. OntarioVanMan
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    OntarioVanMan Retired Expediter Owner/Operator

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    written by American Sniper's Chris Kyle,'s wife Taya, article on Facebook this is great stuff!

    Dear NFL,

    You were doing your part to bring people together and heal the world. That’s really how healing works. We heal by loving each other and leading by example; showing people what is possible when we love each other just as we are and not only recognize our differences but celebrate them and look at how we can use them together to make us jointly better than our separate parts. You were doing your part celebrating each other based on skills, talent and a joint vision without regard to color and religion.

    You were doing your part and we were doing ours. We showed up cheering and groaning together to as one. We talked in the concession lines and commiserated and celebrated our team together. Did it ever occur to you that you and we were already a mix of backgrounds, races and religions? We were already living the dream you want, right in front of you.

    Your desire to focus on division and anger has shattered what many people loved most about the sport. Football was really a metaphor for our ideal world -- different backgrounds, talents, political beliefs and histories as one big team with one big goal -- to do well, to win, TOGETHER.

    You are asking us to abandon what we loved about togetherness and make choices of division. Will we stand with you? Will we stand with our flag? What does it mean? What does it mean if we buy a ticket or NFL gear? What does it mean if we don’t? It is the polar opposite of the easy togetherness we once loved in football.

    It was simple – we loved you and you loved us – with all of our races, religions, different backgrounds and politics. Simplicity in a crazy world was pretty awesome.

    You dear NFL, have taken that. You have lost me here.

    If you ever want to get off your knees and get to work on building bridges, let me know. I have found screaming about the problems in service marriages or even standing in silence in front of them, hasn’t healed even one of them.

    On the other hand, funding the Chris Kyle Frog Foundation, building a team and rolling up my sleeves to get in the trenches during my “off time” -- volunteering there outside of my paying jobs -- has proven to make real change.

    You have a lot of strong guys, I am sure in the off season a lot of them could build some pretty big bridges if they care enough to do the hard work. That would involve getting off their knees and getting to work though. If I can do it while I raise two kids as their only parent and work through the greatest pain of my life, let’s see if they can do it for the issues they say they care so much about.

    Go Longhorns and Sic ‘Em …

    Sincerely,

    Taya
     
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  9. Turtle
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    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    DirecTV is refunding NFL Sunday Ticket subscriptions, restaurants and sports bars are no longer showing the NFL Ticket. The NFL has hijacked this whole thing to use in a branding effort, and it's a bad brand. It should have been nipped in the bud last year, especially since the NFL has some strict rules against conveying personal messages while on the field,whether by voice or by action. Yet in a spectacular example of political correctness run amok, rather than take the chance of offending 70% of their contract employees, they embraced it. The same owners who refuse to sign Colin Kaepernick to a contract because of the baggage and distractions he would bring, are now inexplicably on his side, fostering division and distraction. This week's issue of Sports Illustrated features some of the big names participating in the protests, yet for some reason they omitted Kaepernick, and isn't that funny.

    One of two things are gonna happen: either the national anthem will cease being played before the games, or the players will be required to stand in respect. The first option is the particularly bad one, and will turn off even more people than the protests. The national anthem isn't played at the games for the benefit of the players, it's for the fans.

    And almost certainly, Trump in his opposition to the protests, will once again, as usual, be proved right.
     
  10. piper1
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    piper1 Veteran Expediter

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    You stand....period.

    At many times in my life I have been diismayed, upset and furiously angry with governments and government agencies....on both sides of the border.

    And whether I am at a hockey game in Toronto or a NASCAR race in Tennessee....when it's anthem time I stand up. The anthem isn't about the government of the day....it's about the country, and those who have defended it's founding principles. Last I checked, despite some flaws here and there, we've got it pretty good don't ya think?

    As for the millionaires who get to play a game for a job....I'm pretty sure the list of places they can do that is pretty short....and while I do agree everyone has a right to protest....they should maybe think about that before they disrespect the country that has given them their opportunities and maybe spend some of those millions to fund advocacy groups or other things that might actually help...rather than a disrespectful stunt that solves nothing.
     
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  11. DollarSign
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    DollarSign Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    This Whole thing started about 2 years ago when people were shooting/killing officers and vice versa and Colin Kaepernick took the knee. NEVER had this problem before. I don't mind the arm in the air and don't mind what you do, YOU NEED TO STAND! It's been this way for a long time!

    Shouldn't this be in the sports section? :dash2:
     
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  12. Tennesseahawk
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    Tennesseahawk Veteran Expediter

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    1) Support their right to protest, regardless if you agree or not.

    2) Condemn them if you think they're being stupid.

    In that order.
     
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  13. Grizzly

    Grizzly Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    Correct! It's for the fans!
    You forgot Option #3 .... Let the players stay inside for the anthem ... like they used to, before the Defense Department starting paying the NFL for displays of patriotism.

    Military paid sports teams $10.4M for tributes
     
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  14. Tennesseahawk
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    Tennesseahawk Veteran Expediter

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    You mean psyops? Psyops is our friend.
     
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  15. Turtle
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    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    I don't think anyone has said they don't have the right to protest. The problem is they think their right to protest extends to infringing on the right of others to criticize the protest. They think everyone else should either join in the protest, or shut up about it. Aaron Rogers, the GB QB, is sick of the criticisms. He went so far as to post what he thought was a clever snark on Instagram...

    Rogers.PNG

    They're not getting any attacks on social media because (A), they're not protesting the national anthem, and (B) they're doing their job! Mister I Got a Degree in Basket Weaving from the University of California.
     
  16. Turtle
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    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    AND, the 22-member Michigan Legislative Black Caucus are not happy at all with the head of the Michigan State Police for sharing a Facebook post calling NFL players who protest during the national anthem "anti-American degenerates," "rich, entitled, ungrateful," and "millionaire ingrates who hate America and disrespect our armed forces and veterans."

    They want Col. Kriste Kibbey Etue fired for... wait for it... here it comes... exercising her freedom of speech.
     
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  17. Tennesseahawk
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    Tennesseahawk Veteran Expediter

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    There are quite a few calling for their patriotism cards to be revoked. I would say that everyone saying they should be fired are saying they don't have the right to protest.

    By gosh, by golly, you MUST stand up for the ditty, because I have season tickets! Jerry Jones! Fire his arse!

    The thing I find... well... umm... hypocritical, is that people want to go back to the age old indoctrination of the pledge of malfeasance, and swear how mouthing words to a ditty, and crossing your heart for a cloth that has become the standard for government largess and totalitarianism, somehow puts them into the righteous club of patriots; as if many know what that means, or what liberty means.

    I have been accused (not on here, YET) of hating my country, when in fact I am giving it tough love. I see my country misbehaving. I see my country acting the fool. I see my country not playing nice with other countries. I see people and companies manipulating my country. And I see a government that is pushing this to happen, with a citizenry who couldn't right their way out of a wet paper Constitution.

    This country needs a spanking for its own good. Go fetch a stick off of the Tree of Liberty.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
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  18. Tennesseahawk
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    Tennesseahawk Veteran Expediter

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    You sound as if I'm on their side.
     
  19. Turtle
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    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    Not at all. They absolutely have the right to protest. But because they aren't children, they also have the obligation of personal responsibility in owning their protest and having to face the consequences that society levies upon them.

    Newp. The MSP post had nothing to do with you.
     
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  20. piper1
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    piper1 Veteran Expediter

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    Therin lies the rub on a LOT of things these days. People want to protest, act a certain way or do whatever the hell they want....and then shriek with some kind of moral superiority or victimization when somone else doesn't like it or agree with it. Now...instead of dealing with consequences of your actions...you just call the other person some kind of hateful name, completely disregard and mock their opinion/belief.... and carry on.
     
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