Sprinter engines

Harley

Expert Expediter
I blew the engine in my 2005 Sprinter with 359,000 miles on it. Dealer wants between $12 and $13,000 for new engine. I found a web site called "Quality Sprinter engines" out of Houston that has remanufactured for $5574 plus core and shipping. Used motors for $3497. Does anybody know this company or of another one that has better prices? Need replacement asap.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm familiar with them a little. They have a snotload of used parts listings on eBay. I do know that they (QualitySprinter.com, Quality Parts USA, and D & P Industries, Inc.) are strictly a parts reseller, not a rebuilder or a repair shop. They pull a lot of stuff from wrecks and have a few things rebuilt for them.

An engine from them includes just the engine. It includes the
basic engine block, oil pan, cylinder head and internal components. All electrical and bolt-on parts are not included. Nor are the injectors, and in order for them to honor the warranty, you must supply new injectors, and those will run you an additional $2500, give or take. If you're lucky you can reuse the current fuel injector pump, if not that'll run you another $1700 or so.

A new one from the dealer includes anything and everything attached to the engine, including starter, alternator, electrical connections, fuel rail, all pumps (except the fuel pump, I think), tensioner, everything. It's plug and play, a complete deal ready to drop in and drive away.


If you go with a used or rebuilt engine, depending on what kind of shape your current ancillary components are, and the expertise of whoever does the swap, it
might end up being cheaper to go that route, but it certainly won't be as ASAP as a dealer dropping a new one in, and it could very well end up costing more due to increased labor and parts replacement costs.

One thing I find interesting about
QualitySprinter.com, being that they are a parts reseller only, is they have a couple of PDF files where they have their own recommended maintenance schedule, which includes laughable maintenance intervals of several things (like transmission and rear end oil to be changed every 30K miles).

Also, they list no physical address anywhere on the Web site or their eBay ads, which is another red flag. In addition, used engines come with a 90 day warranty and rebuilts come with a 12 month warranty, but also comes with a bunch of strings attached to that one year warranty. I'd read that carefully before ordering.

They also have a nifty PDF where they give you tips and information, and step-by-steps, on changing the oil. In it, they tell you that 229.5 engine oil "requires a special oil filter that is not readily available in the US so avoid if possible", so they are specifically recommending against 229.5 oil, because the "special" filter (which has never existed and has never been required) isn't available here in the US, which tells me straight up that they don't know what they are talking about, because I know exactly where they got that bit of misinformation. Based on that alone, I'm not sure I'd order so much as a used fuel filler cap from them.

They do have a lot of parts pulled from wrecks, both on their Web site and on eBay, and that might be a good way to replace a part, but even the used parts they have tend to be way overpriced, IMHO. I got a used EGR valve off eBay that was pulled from a 6000 mile wreck and paid $45 for it. They had one from a 10,000 mile wreck that they wanted $199 for it, but they'll sell you a new one for $250. Though, I'd want to make absolutely sure that it's not a Chinese part, which is common out there, and when you see a part that is substantially below that of other discounted online guaranteed Benz or Mopar OEM parts, it's probably a Chinese part. Another dead giveaway is when they list the part number (in the rare cases where they do), and it doesn't match a MB or Chrysler part number.

In any case, if it were me, I'd deal with a sure thing in a plug-n-play complete replacement, rather than something with too many potential problems that could end up costing considerably more than the dealer. In fact, mine's got almost 300,000 miles on it, so if something like a fuel rail goes bad, which is more than five grand, I'll replace the fuel rail along with the engine and everything attached to it for not much more than twice that. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hopefully others (OVM, Eddie, RLENT, hint, hint) will chime in with their thoughts to give you some more to think about.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I am with Turtle..

Part of my success with my vans have been a working practice of using OEM parts only.

A new one from the dealer includes anything and everything attached to the engine, including starter, alternator, electrical connections, fuel rail, all pumps (except the fuel pump, I think), tensioner, everything. It's plug and play, a complete deal ready to drop in and drive away.

I do believe a new turbo also comes with it...

If you list the cost of all the parts included the cost of the engine is actually quite low...below your 5500 used engine.

And then there is the downtime. Which would probably be double that of a new install...take that into the cost.

And like Turtle If an expensive fuel rail system was needed..I'd go with a new engine. I am at 497,000 now
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If your anywhere around Charlotte nc call Brandon at Lake Norman dodge. 704 309 2506. Even if your not close he might be able to give you some helpful info.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
I dont know what you financial situation is, how close you are to having the current one paid off, but would it be a better idea and cheaper to get another van altogether? Just wondering.
 

Harley

Expert Expediter
First I would like to thank Turtle for a very indepth reply to my questions. There was a lot of food for thought in your response sir and I very much appreciate it. OVM, I have be on here for several years without posting, rather just reading and taking in all the info I could. Your insight is well appreciated as well and I agree with you that OEM parts are by far the best choice when available. There are a number of peope on here that have helped me without even knowing it so when I actually asked something I knew I would get the best info available. Greg, my engine has always run cold. Never ran much over 180 for 4 and a half years. On the day in question my engine started to knock loudly without any warning. Within a minute the temp shot up to 250 so I shut it down and waited for it to cool. The motor seized up according to my mechanic at my local Dodge dealer. It broke loose the next day but when cranked it sounded like the bottom was coming out of the motor. A further check found that cylinders number 3 and 4 were dead and and bearings shot. I bought my van new from the dealer where my mechanic works. I have always used Mobile 0w40 oil since new. XIGGI, thanks for your friends number but I had already decided to let my mechanic and his dealership get me a new long block. After what Turtle told me I was very skeptical of dealing with a company I did not know. Ya see, that's what I like about this site. We can all learn from each other and hopefully make better business decisions along the way. My van is paid for and that's a good thing. I got a very good deal in that I will be able to save a bunch by using my ingectors and other componants. My mechanic who happens to be a very good friend has also agreed to help me out on the labor. All in all it was not as bad as It could have been and I have learned a lot along the way. Again my thanks to you gentleman. I will let you all know how this project progresses.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Harley...Please let us know how it all works out for you...we sprinters guys have to stick together ya know...Good Luck:)
 

Harley

Expert Expediter
Thanks OVM. I will definitely keep you informed. Some people swear at sprinters and some swear by them. I am fortunate. Other than a new fuel pump and hitting some deer I have had very good performance from mine up till now so I can't complain. Still was getting better than 20 mpg too.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I do know that they (QualitySprinter.com, Quality Parts USA, and D & P Industries, Inc.) are strictly a parts reseller, not a rebuilder or a repair shop.
Actually, I believe they are an auto salvage yard (aka a junkyard)

They pull a lot of stuff from wrecks ....
Yup .... they do ;)

As to the rebuilding, I believe that's mostly done in-house ....

The wisdom of having a salvage yard "rebuilding" a fairly sophisticated motor is, generally speaking, rather dubious .....

To really "have it goin' on" in that arena, requires a fairly heavy capital investment, as well as personnel with significant training and a high degree of expertise - something similar to a local engine rebuilding shop near where I live:

R & R Engine and Machine: The 2006 Machine Shop of the Year
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Greg, my engine has always run cold.
It is a fairly cold-blooded engine (as evidenced by the inclusion of the Ebsperpacher Heater Booster included as standard equipment)

Never ran much over 180 for 4 and a half years.
Well, now that is interesting ..... normal coolant temps in warm weather (ambient air temps of 55F to 75F degrees) should be around 194 degrees (point where the thermostat fully opens) ........

My temp gage tends to read around that - 190F or so - in warm weather ... (gauge needle slices through the left side of the 8 in 180, well to the left of the black 180 index mark in the center of the gauge)

The only time it ever runs at 180 (or less) is very cold weather (ambient air temps below 30F), or when coasting down a long grade (even in fairly warm weather)

In fairly cold weather, if the engine runs significantly cooler (at highway speeds) it may be evidence of a thermostat which is not operating correctly (fails to close enough to restrict coolant flow and raise the engine temp) ..... however once the ambient air temp gets cold enough (below zero, or significantly below) I've had to run the Heater Booster, even at highway speeds, just to make 180F.

On a hot summer day, loaded at GVW, and pulling long, steep grades, mine will easily go up to 215 degree ..... or more ...... (according to the gauge)

It will also run warm (194F or higher) in hot weather, with the AC on, when the vehicle is sitting still and idling (lack of air flow)

On the day in question my engine started to knock loudly without any warning. Within a minute the temp shot up to 250 so I shut it down and waited for it to cool.
Interesting ...... no MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) at the point where it started knocking ?

Did you check the fluids (engine coolant and oil) after you let it cool down ? What was the result ?

Any evidence of cross contamination ? (water in oil, blown head gasket, etc.)

The motor seized up according to my mechanic at my local Dodge dealer. It broke loose the next day but when cranked it sounded like the bottom was coming out of the motor. A further check found that cylinders number 3 and 4 were dead and and bearings shot.
What does "dead" mean ? ...... no compression ?

Sounds like you spun one or more main bearings ......

It would be interesting to hear exactly what all went ..... (spun bearings, thrown rod, dropped a valve ....)

I bought my van new from the dealer where my mechanic works. I have always used Mobile 0w40 oil since new.
Considering that (and provided you changed the oil at the proper intervals), I'm very surprised this happened ..... these motors are easily capable of going in excess of 500K miles.

XIGGI, thanks for your friends number but I had already decided to let my mechanic and his dealership get me a new long block.
It is my understanding that initially the long blocks from Chrysler were new, due to an initial shortage of cores that could be rebuilt - but that that is no longer the case, and all 5 cylinder engines for the T1N Sprinter obtained from are, in fact, rebuilt.

After what Turtle told me I was very skeptical of dealing with a company I did not know.
Smart move - the company in question is dicey at best, based on information I have from someone who has had fairly extensive dealings with them.

I got a very good deal in that I will be able to save a bunch by using my injectors and other components.
Would appreciate if you report on exactly what is - and what is not - included with the long block.

I'd also appreciate if you could confirm whether the long block is in fact, new - with all new components ..... as opposed to rebuilt.

I will let you all know how this project progresses.
Thanks - keep us updated.
 
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Harley

Expert Expediter
OK stop the presses. All is not well in the land of OZ. Got a call from my mechanic today and was advised that even though a long block is supposed to be available for my van it is in fact not. When he tried to order it the computer said it was not available but I would instead have to order the entire package for $12,000 plus. Not what I wanted to hear. I am back to looking for a used engine. RLENT I will try to answer your questions but since I am pretty computer illiterate I cannot copy and paste as you did so please bear with me. I said that my engine barely ran above 180. In my opinion if the needle is sitting between the 1 and the 8 then that is barely above 180. Since I do not have my guages to look at right now it was merely an estimate on my part. Not sure what the EXACT temp was. There were no indicator lights on at all at the time of failure so there was no warning. While on the side of the road I checked the oil and found it OK and NO water. After cooling down for a few minutes I loosened the radiator cap and the volcano errupted. I just talked to my mechanic and found that it was cylinders 3 and 5 not 3 and 4. He says that there was no compression on either cylinder and that the bearings were indeed gone. It would be cost prohibitive to rebuild this engine so that is why I have decided on the used engine. With so many miles on this van it would take quite a while to get a return on a new engine and certainly would not get any more when selling it. By the way I did change my oil regularly at 10,000 mile intervals and changed the fuel filter every 20,000 miles. Coolant never ran low either. I, also, was hoping for 500,000 but not to be. Last but not least, the long block was suppose to come with just the internals and no accessories at all including injectors. The complete engine comes with all the goodies and YES they are REBUILT not new now. Hope this sheds some light for you RLENT. Now just need to find a motor.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OK,
Some more questions.

1 - is the mechanic Sprinter trained?

2 - did he pull the head?

3 - did he pull the pan or drain the oil?

Maybe it is old Mercedes training, but no compression means a number of things, and so is a knock - not necessary the bottom end letting loose which happens but not as often as top end problems.

There is something about the 5/3 failure, maybe Turtle or Rlent can remind me what it is but something about those two cylinders - anyone?

Rebuilding the engine is still an option to get back on the road, I know the sprinter owners may disagree but somehow they are being rebuilt. It doesn't seem to be a difficult engine to rebuild, but again it all depends on the skills of the guy with the Mic.
 

Harley

Expert Expediter
XIGGI, I will be calling Brandon tomorrow. Greg, my mechanic is sprinter trained. He has replaced some injectors and my head in the past so he knows my engine quite well. He did not pull the head this time nor drain the oil. As soon as I heard the noise the engine made when he cranked it EVEN I KNEW it was in bad shape. He is a personal friend and I trust his judgement without question. Having the skills to rebuild the engine is one thing. Me having unlimited funds to persue such a task is another. I do not want to put so much into my van that I have to drive it for more years than I want only to get nothing when I decide to sell it or trade and yes I am aware that I will lose in the end anyway.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Harley,

Thanks for all the data.

Last but not least, the long block was suppose to come with just the internals and no accessories at all including injectors.
IC

The complete engine comes with all the goodies and YES they are REBUILT not new now.
Hopefully, others will take note of this point - it is no small matter, at least in terms of evaluating the relative value of such an engine (IOW, something might not seem quite as good a value when you find out it is actually rebuilt as opposed to being new - although a good warranty could mitigate that)

Hope this sheds some light for you RLENT.
Does indeed - thank you for taking the time to respond. :D

Now just need to find a motor.
I'd be giving Doktor A (Andy Bittenbinder) a call on his Sprinter Hotline:

412-366-6165

The good Dok rebuilds them and may have a complete long block or short block in stock.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Maybe it is old Mercedes training, but no compression means a number of things, and so is a knock - not necessary the bottom end letting loose which happens but not as often as top end problems.
Yeah .... I'd agree ..... although I have seen pics of at least one rod failure, where the con rod punched a hole right thru the block wall.

Also saw one while I was over at Doktor A's where the crank snapped in half ...

There is something about the 5/3 failure, maybe Turtle or Rlent can remind me what it is but something about those two cylinders - anyone?
Mmmm ... nothing comes to mind right off the top of my head ..... the firing order is 1-2-4-5-3 tho' ...... so it appears the failure occurred in firing order sequence ....

There was something about the no. 1 cylinder I think (or was it no. 2 ?) in terms of heat .... and it's effect on glowplug seizure in the head I think ...... can't remember right offhand for sure ......

Considering that correct fluids were used and maintenance was done at the required intervals, I'm wondering if there might have been a failure of the harmonic balancer (crank damper) .... reports of failure this item (damper) are not entirely unheard of ....

Harley - did you notice any change in the apparent smoothness of the engine over time ?

Rebuilding the engine is still an option to get back on the road, I know the sprinter owners may disagree but somehow they are being rebuilt.
I would not disagree at all ..... although no compression is a concern .... that could just be as simple as a broken ring ....

If the block and crank are in relatively decent shape it should be doable ..... the crank could be welded and reground .... but I don't believe there are any oversize parts (pistons, rings) available .... (not that they would absolutely be needed)

It doesn't seem to be a difficult engine to rebuild,
Having looked the exploded parts diagrams repeatedly many times I would agree ..... it's not one that I'd be afraid to tackle .... but I'm kinda crazy that way .... :rolleyes:

but again it all depends on the skills of the guy with the Mic.
Yup.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Doktor A also pointed out that there is a cam shaft sprocket failure which shows up in another MB engine, they have been using powered metal instead of a machined part.

The thing about the firing order is if there is cam (sprocket, chain, follower, pad, etc... ) broke it may be a case where the cam stopped but the engine didn't - makes a d*mn loud banging noise. I've had this happen on two engines. The loss of compression may be due to bent valves (ouch!) and the engine is alright overall except for the rebuilding of the head (replacing valves, guides, machining, etc...).

I asked specifically if the oil was drained, there would be a lot of soft material in the oil. The head removal is the first thing we were told at MB when there was a compression loss and "bottom end" noises.
 

Harley

Expert Expediter
I didn't notice any difference in the way the motor had been running before the problem came about. I called and left a message for Doktor A. At this point I just want an engine that will run. Used or rebuilt doesn't matter as long as I can get back out there soon.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Doktor A also pointed out that there is a cam shaft sprocket failure which shows up in another MB engine, they have been using powered metal instead of a machined part.
Yup .... very familiar with that .... :(

The thing about the firing order is if there is cam (sprocket, chain, follower, pad, etc... ) broke it may be a case where the cam stopped but the engine didn't - makes a d*mn loud banging noise. I've had this happen on two engines.
Interesting ...... :D

Yeah .... I have a friend who has an '08 Sprinter with the V6 ....

As a cause, either his timing chain broke (it was actually broken when the motor was disassembled) or what you describe above (with the sprocket/gear) happened .... this was late last year.

IIRC, it toasted out the timing chain and tensioners/guides, at least several of the sprockets (all replaced), some of the tappets/lifters and many of the rockers .... I believe all four cams were replaced as well, although none were actually broken.

Amazingly,the head was checked for cracks and pressure tested and came back ok ... I don't believe that any valves were even bent .... also there was no damage to the lower end (block, pistons, con rods)

Quite astounding .... considering that it is an interference motor.

Top end was repaired (at much expense) and, as of this afternoon, the vehicle is still running fine, many tens of thousands of miles later after being repaired/rebuilt (top-end)

The loss of compression may be due to bent valves (ouch!) and the engine is alright overall except for the rebuilding of the head (replacing valves, guides, machining, etc...)
Exactly.

I asked specifically if the oil was drained, there would be a lot of soft material in the oil. The head removal is the first thing we were told at MB when there was a compression loss and "bottom end" noises.
Yup ..... while I didn't see it myself, my friend described the upper end of his motor (heads) as being entirely covered with metal debris .... don't remember if the dropped they OP on it or not ....

I do know he changed the oil on it several times immediately after they got it back together.
 
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