Ron Paul for President No More IRS!

greg334

Veteran Expediter
All I can say is this.

Ron Paul makes some sense but he leaves out the facts.

So it would be a better and possible thing to go to the

 

rdtrpn

Seasoned Expediter
what politician that includes facts then later doesn't contradict there own words? Leave them out or not... I like what Ron Paul says and agree that he could say more. A perfect politician doesn't exist.
 

rdtrpn

Seasoned Expediter
ok i don't see many views for this one. People this is a real candidate. You have no doubt seen the signs on the side of the highways. maybe you don't realize it because you may not have heard of Ron Paul. If you want to do away with the IRS this is the man for the presidency to do the job. Look at the link above and check out his issues.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Yes... I've heard of him. Frankly, I don't think he's presidential. I also don't appreciate how he blames the US for 911. Regardless, it's a moot point. He's done. Take him outta the oven.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Regardless, it's a moot point. He's done. Take him outta the oven.

What does moot have to do with this, I didn't see him post.

He's done?

What is he a soufflé?

Look your (not you T-hawk) passion is comendable but Ron Paul has done a few things that really bother me.

1 - he is by all accounts a libertairian but during the primaries, he refused to sit for interviews by libertarian reporters and talk show host

2 - just the words 'elminate the IRS' sound good but beyond that he assumes that we are all dummies (like they all do) and does not speak about how we will really replace the revenue. The last time I looked, we stopped depending on Tariffs and duties around 1914 for the revenue and we didn't have welfare, social security and a host of other government run programs - so will he just eliminate all the programs and put us back to 1914 size of government? If he say he will, he's got my vote.

3 - the primaries are not really important to our government and should never be. The primaries should be elminated completely because of the problems directly related to them, like voter fatigue. If he would stand firm on pulling the funding to the parties to stop this mess, well again he would have my vote but it ain't going to happen - because.....

in the real world the president means nothing, he can't do much without permission from congress. People are so fooled that the president is so powerful that he can create things and spend money but he can't.

I say worry about the congress first, get some libertarians in the congress.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Is there something wrong with being a liberatarian? I personaly wish we had 3 or 4 strong parties in this country instead of just the 2.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Is there something wrong with being a liberatarian? I personaly wish we had 3 or 4 strong parties in this country instead of just the 2.

Agreed!

<geez... I can't make a reply unless it's at least 10 characters long??? Well... I'll have to come up with something then.>

Ohhhhhhh... SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS! Even though the sound of it is something quite attrocious. If you say it loud enough you'll always sound precocious. SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS!

Eat your heart out, Dick Van :censoredsign:! BTW... I hate Diagnosis Murder!!! :D
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
"in the real world the president means nothing, he can't do much without permission from congress. People are so fooled that the president is so powerful that he can create things and spend money but he can't."

quite right greg. that is a point i have been trying to make people aware of but it just goes by them. all the prez does is do the photo ops and take the heat when things go bad and look good sometimes. we have to pay more attention to our congressmen and women than the year long endurance race for pres.

isn't it canada or maybe england that has no primaries like we do but puts the candidates on tv a week before the election then has everyone vote? man what a time saving and money saving concept. in wisc there was a march primary for pres and now in april there is a city election. now that is wasteful. both could have been done at one time and had better turnout for the local issues. i suppose the fed primary process does not allow local to be mixed with fed. nothing like spending money.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Jack,
In fact there were many elections held that included local, state ballot proposals and election of some officials during the primary voting.

What the primaries actually do in our country is dilute (word of the day :p) the entire election process and force the voter just to pull the lever at the time of the real election based on false and sometimes misleading rhetoric used during the primaries instead of having the real campaigning process take place. I see it already happening with Obama. His follows are so out of touch that they are considering that if he wins the primaries, then he is really the president and the election should not take place.

Ark, there is nothing wrong with being a libertarian, in fact there are a lot of reasons why people should be but here is the problem. Most of the party has been on the side of legalized drugs and supported by people who can't really form a real sentence or are professional students on the U of M campus. Most of these people have been on the forefront of this issue and a few other issues like legalized drugs and for the most part represent the libertarian party to the public. Ron Paul is one of the few who has brought this image back to a more civil face of the party but it still has a long way to go.

As for the Ideals, nothing wrong with them. I think that they are for the most part ideals of what they country was founded on but I leave the question to any libertarian that if we eliminate programs and the IRS, will we actually go back to the pre-1914 form of government or better yet the pre-1858 form?
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I just wish there was a decent party that was moderatly conservative, but didn't believe in a large centralized government that has it's hands in everything. I think if the government would get it's hands out of stuff and quit regulating everything to death things might get better. I mean let's be honest with ourselves everything the government touches it either corrupts, bankrupts, or ruins. The funny thing about that is we all know it whether we want to admit it or not, and people want the government to have more power over our day to day lives.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Ark,
Here is something for you to think about;

Most people who call themselves conservatives are not, they are very close to classic liberals.

Liberals today (since just before Wilson's time) are a mix of socialist and fascist, with some communist thrown in there.

Socialism is not for everyone, or every political system. Leroux and others (Owens) who were part of the collective mentality or cooperative movement, saw socialism as part of the greater good for all people based on the premise that the poor can only be helped when all are involved.

Communism, well it does not really work well unless there is death, destruction and a lot of suppression - Lenin was clear about it, Stalin practiced it.

But when we talk about Fascism, there is a mixed group of emotions that come out. In reality, a lot of people liked Fascism, they like the ideas and the progress that was made in Italy and Germany under Fascist rule. Mussolini was a hero to many non-Italians here, looking at the progressiveness of the political climate during our times of depression as a real solution, even FDR said something to the effect 'we will insititute it here but unlike them, we will make it work'. What I see more today is not the jack booted fascist but the school teacher fascism, and the one person who I would never think that would hit it right on the head, George Carlin made the most prolific comment I have heard since Lewis Black's comments about the Auto Companies failing - carlin said "When fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jack-boots. It will be Nike sneakers and Smiley shirts...Germany lost the Second World War. Fascism won it. Believe me, my friend." This is already happening in our schools, the teachers are shaping the kids not to really think, not to question. There is a really good piece that was written (and I wish I could post the link to it but I can't find it) about how Hitler instituted education reform in Germany in '34 and the real results from those reforms. It is scary to think that it has really happened here.

We as a country seem to be repeating things. 100 years ago we faced similar problems with our political system and the candidates on all levels, coming into the 1912 election we ended up electing one of the most harmful people that ever sat in the WH. 115 years prior we were in a real mess but in reality we were still moving ahead.

Moving back to today's United States, it is just madding. We progress to regress in our political process, our relations with our fellow citizens of different back grounds and races have been strained and more divisive and we are on the brink of not just another election but one that the results will either take us down a very steep slope of dismal failure as a country or we will end up with status quo style of government that we have had for the last 20 years.

Ark, I know you want to get into politics, but I got to say that unless you learn what happened in the past, especially from 1876 to 1940, you may miss a lot of opportunities.

I am re-reading Henry Littlefield's 1964 piece on the Wizard of Oz and the window on the gilded age's political world that the book actually talks about. Beside syncing it to the Dark Side of the Moon, the book actaully opens up a window to a world that shows us our future.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Ark, I know you want to get into politics, but I got to say that unless you learn what happened in the past, especially from 1876 to 1940, you may miss a lot of opportunities.

Could you please elaborate on the point about missed oppurtunities. Are saying I should learn to play the game? I am kind of confused.
 
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