Regarding the Oregon mass shooting, it's the guns not the shooter.

aristotle

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Irony: point out that it's men who engage in mass killing, then bemoan the "Murphy Brown" society. Because it's also men who abdicate the responsibility of parenthood that make most women single parents. whether after a divorce, or without benefit of marriage in the first place, it's women who are left to raise the children.
How many of the mass killers had a single parent?
Perhaps females could use better judgment in selection of a mate.
 

cheri1122

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The fictional Murphy Brown chose to have a baby without the benefit of marriage and the whole notion was widely applauded by liberals.

Since the fictional Murphy Brown was quite capable of providing everything the child needed [including some male role models on at least as many occasions as many fathers are present for their children], why not? A child raised in such circs would stand a much better chance of growing up happy, healthy, and productive than one raised in a two parent home, when the parents are dysfunctional. Or abusive. Or emotionally immature. Or ignorant and uneducated and unmotivated to learn. Or religious fanatics. Or even just flat broke.
I don't think liberals would have bothered applauding, if Quayle hadn't made such a dumb remark about it, lol.
 

cheri1122

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Aristotle: socialization does not depend upon the number of one's parents, but the parents' commitment to raising children who reflect well upon them, and are an asset to society.
I think we need to stop pretending that every woman should have children, because some should just not.
 

aristotle

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No argument here that every woman should have children. Susan Smith strapped her toddlers into car seats, then rolled the car into water, deliberately drowning her kids. Andrea Yates drowned all five of her young children, one by one, in the bathtub.
 

cheri1122

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But our culture promotes motherhood as the ideal for every woman, regardless of her feelings on the matter. Many women [like my youngest daughter] who don't wish to have children are put on the defensive. [Nearly everyone tells her she will change her mind.] I think that's counterproductive. I think that a woman who doesn't want children shouldn't have them, period, but in today's world, she gets a lot of 'flak' for saying so.
 

cheri1122

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Point made: society encouraged Smith and Yates to have children, because they were married, but decried the fictional Brown, because she wasn't. That's the wrong standard of judgment, IMO.
 

aristotle

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Birthrates among Caucasian women are so low it isn't even at replacement levels. At some point, in the not too distant future, whites will be in the minority nearly everywhere. Not in our lifetime, but maybe our grandkids'. A very different world lies ahead. Conquest by reproduction.
 
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cheri1122

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Birthrates among Caucasian women are so low it isn't even at replacement levels. At some point, in the not too distant future, whites will be in the minority nearly everywhere. Not in our lifetime, but maybe our grandkids'. A very different world lies ahead.

Yep. All we can do is try to make it better. I think one way to do that is to quit pretending that every 'family' has to be a mom & a dad & 2 children, and every one should get married and have children, because that is not working out too well. I agree that the nuclear family is the best way to raise kids, but it's not the only way that raises good kids, so why narrow the possibilities?
I guess being in the minority would not be pleasant for you, huh? I can't say it would be for me either, but if it happens, we adapt. That's what humans do: adapt. It's a much better tactic for survival than force, even if it is harder to accomplish.
 

Turtle

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But our culture promotes motherhood as the ideal for every woman, regardless of her feelings on the matter.
So does every other culture. Just like every other culture promotes eating food. And for the same reasons. Evolution and the survival of the species demands, among many things, reproduction, and eating food. It's not even cultural, it's universal, and by definition something that is universal cannot be cultural. Culture is a learned behavior, not an evolutionary biological one. The notion of anything being universally cultural is absurd, since it's the differences that comprise culture. Culture refers to those phenomena that cannot be fully explained by psychobiological concepts. We as a species know fully well, because it's hard coded in our DNA, that we need to reproduce in order to survive. We also know that surviving in groups is more advantageous than in solitude, and as a result we as a species, rather than we as a culture, will promote procreation as a group, and will question those who fail to do so. (It's also why, as a group, same-sex marriage will never be embraced, because it goes against the very premise of survival and evolution.).
 

cheri1122

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It is also a survival imperative to eat, but we have no problem dieting eh?
We have learned that what is good for the whole is not necessarily good for every individual, but we haven't applied that to parenthood. We can encourage parenthood among those who are good at it [financially and emotionally stable], while discouraging it for those who don't want to be parents. Doing the 'right' thing [having children] for the wrong reasons [because 'it's expected' or 'the Pregnancy Resource people made me feel guilty, so I had the baby'] often ends very badly.
Survival of the species is not threatened by women who don't want children or by gay people, any more than by people [and here, I think women are the majority] who kill their own children. Our lizard brains don't know that, but there's no reason to pretend that we don't.
 

cheri1122

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And perhaps fathers could provide better examples of what would constitute a good mate for their young daughters ...

Mine certainly did, I have no one to blame for my failure on that score except myself.
Republicans & conservatives are generally quick to blame the victims, though, as Aristotle did here. It's the women's fault the men don't support their kids. :mad:
 
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cheri1122

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That strike through line is an error. I'd edit & undo it, if I knew how I did it in the first place, lol.
 

Turtle

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The BBcode is an "S" in the start bracket and a "slash-S" in the end bracket. You may have had that section of text highlighted and then mistakenly hit the American flag lookin' icon just to the left of the camera icon and clicked "Strikethrough" by mistake.

I edited it out, but the way to edit things like that (and uploaded pictures) is to go to edit, then "More Options" to get the full editor.
 
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