Refer weight and over all weight questions

[Prarysun]

Hello and Happy Easter weekend to all of you! We bought a refer truck with an apu etc. Had it weighed today and came up with an overall weight 24,040 empty, 11360 on the steers and 12680 on the rears. We only have two axles for now. Sooooo my question is for refer owners with no tag or pusher axles, are you running this heavy? We'll be on with Panther's Elite services but are figuring we will only be able to haul about 8k lbs. I know we'd be turned down with Fed Ex white glove cause we cannot haul 13K. For those with pusher or tag axles, how much more weight can u haul? Do you feel the tags or pushers are worth the extra cost to be able to haul more freight? Would love to hear from Panther's Elite running refers. Do you haul a lot of freight over 8k? I appreciate any help you can give on this subject. Thanks



















Dianne







:7

 

[greg334]

"I know we'd be turned down with Fed Ex white glove cause we cannot haul 13K."

Huh?

No you won't.

check out Phil's truck.

 

[Moot]

How do you get 11,360# on the steers? Is that common for an expedite straight truck to being pushing 12,000# on the steers empty?

 

[ATeam]

With FedEx Custom Critical, you won't be turned down because you cannot scale a 13,000 lbs. payload but you would be considered a CR unit instead of DR. CR units must be able to scale up to 5,000 lbs. and have a 14-foot or larger box. Click below for the FedEx vehicle qualification page.

http://customcritical.fedex.com/us/owneroperator/specs/default.shtml

 

[Prarysun]

Thanks folks, you are right at FECC we'd be considered a CR unit, just wondering what other refer units with similair equip. is weighing in at. Am a little worried with the steers weighing in at 11360 empty. We have a 96" bunk, apu, refer. It was told to me once we put weight in the back, depending on how we load it, it would take weight off the steers, does that seem accurate? As it stands now, we should be able to scale around 8k once we put all our stuff in it. Trouble is engineers at Toyota, (yes it's a HINO) told us we'd be able to scale 14K. I knew that was not accurate because of my last straight truck. I had none of that equip and could barely scale 13K.
But would like some input from refer owners that may have a similair situation. Thanks for your comments!




















Dianne

 

[davekc]

Your Hino is alittle on the heavy side as far as the front axle. As to whether you should add a pusher axle depends on whether you have room. The other issue is where your back axle is in relation to your box position. With a 260 HP engine, you don't want any additional weight on there if you can help it.
Most expedite reefer loads are under that 8,000lb mark.







Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[ATeam]

When we first put our truck on the road, the steer axle weight came in around 11,600 lbs (actual on the ground). As we added a tool box and filled it, and then moved more stuff into the sleeper the weight grew to around 11,800 lbs. That is with all fuel and water tanks full, both codrivers seated in the front, and no freight on board.

The truck is pictured on my web site (click "Truck Photo and Specs" below). Notice how most of the reefer body is behind the rear axles (tandems). The wheelbase is 276 inches. When we put freight on board, the truck frame and rear axles act like a teeter totter, taking weight off the front axle. So yes, it does make sense what you have been told. Our front axle is heaviest when the truck has no freight on board.

We carry a fair amount of freight handling equipment in the front of the box. That means virtually no customer freight will be loaded ahead of the bogy (center point of the teandems) and the weight forward of the tandems will be constant. With the 5,000 lbs. freight limit FedEx has for C units, we have no worries about customer freight ever making our front axle too heavy.

In ballpark terms, 2,500 lbs of rear-loaded freight will reduce the weight on the front axle by a few hundred pounds. That is on OUR TRUCK ONLY. It is not a rule of thumb to follow on other trucks. Different configurations and wheelbase lengths will produce different results.

Now that you got me curious, I might make a scale trip with our current load. It is 4,000 lbs. and rear loaded. If we can work a scale trip in before delivery, I'll let you know how it turned out.

 

[RLENT]

With the 5,000 lbs. freight limit FedEx has for C units, we have no worries about customer freight ever making our front axle too heavy.

Phil,

Let me see if I understand this correctly - are you saying above that because you are classified as a "C unit" at Fedex, you never get loads over 5000 lbs. - even though the practical payload of your vehicle is listed on your website at around 12K ?

 

[x06col]

Maybe there is some learning available here for others contemplating a truck purchase.
1. Never allow sales personnel to tell you what you need. Tell the vendor what YOU want and need.
2. After you have plunked a large pile of cash in someones account, is NOT the time to scale your new truck.
3. The LARGE problem I see here is, the purchaser/s have been sitting on their hands for (ten) years. I just don't understand how someone can be in the "trucking" business for (ten) years, and not know how to scale (load) a truck. Sounds to me that the new owners inattention to detail may cause them to "run what they brung" or, spend too much to make a usefull truck, after spending a large amount already.

Good luck in "unscrewing" your dilema.

 

[arkjarhead]

plus when you add that tag you are adding more weight, but without it i guess you can run with half tanks of fuel to take weight off of the steer axle.

 

[Prarysun]

Thank you again all for your great (and not so great comments). In answer to ATEAM you helped alot, looked at your specs, only prob we asked the dealer to move the rear axle back to 316-317" and they ignored us and moved it back to 335". So as you can imagine, the axle we have is far back. We have a 22' box on by the way. The sleeper is 96" with the weight of refer, apu and only 2 50 gal tanks. So we will probably from what I can figure have to move the rear axle forward a foot and a half to make the weight distribute better. We would like to haul 13K down the road some so will eventually get a tag axle. Does anyone know besides the weight of the tag what additional weight it will allow us? I realize there are factors but what did it add to your truck as far as pay load goes? Thanks.

as to X06col, Yes I have been in the business for 11 yrs now, but mostly in cargo vans. Had one basic straight truck, it had no problems, it had a 300 in wheel base and it did scale heavy on the rears sometimes, but overall was fine. Having had that experience, it told me to have the rear axle pushed back some to avoid that problem in the future and I relied on what the engineers came up with which now I realize the engineers were wrong, and the rears were moved back TOO far. I tried to do my research before and knew what I didnt want, but you rely on people you would think know and trust what the engineers and dealers say in addition, and we are the ones who came out on the short end. Did we learn something? You betcha, did it cost us to learn a few new things? You betcha. At the very least, we will probably have to eat the cost of moving the rears back up some, and down the road, we will add a tag axle, maybe. If we do not haul a lot of heavy freight in refer div. then we may not have to go for the tag. Live and Learn comes with a price. But thank you all so much for your help and comments, I think I have learned the most through this site. Happy Easter to you all. and God Bless.



















Dianne

 

[Prarysun]

By the By, Dave you helped in saying we would probably not be hauling over 8k lbs which I was informed by Panther is usually the case. So that makes us feel better. We got the 316-317 figure from Churneys in Cleveland as what they move the rear axles to for their 22' straight trucks, so we will probably solve that problem by moving them up some and getting some of that weight off the steers...Thanks again all.


















Dianne

 

[x06col]

You are allowed 34,000 on tandems, but, not over 20,000 on either axle in some states. You are allowed 12,000 on the steer, for a total of 46,000. With a tag your truck will weigh about 26,000 leaving a 20,000 payload. Approximately. There are veriables depending on how far you split the tandems, but this should get you in the ballpark.

 

[ATeam]

>Phil,
>
>Let me see if I understand this correctly - are you saying
>above that because you are classified as a "C unit" at
>Fedex, you never get loads over 5000 lbs. - even though the
>practical payload of your vehicle is listed on your website
>at around 12K ?

Yes. That is correct, though there may be the ocasional excpetion. If FedEx has say a 7,000 lbs. load and no other trucks in the area to cover it, dispatchers may dig into their database a little deeper and see that we could carry it. In that case, we might be offered the load, though FedEx would only pay the C rate. They have explained that if they are sending a C truck to the customer, they cannot charge a D rate, even if we are carrying D weight. That is no big deal to us. Such an event has occured one time since we put the truck in service. The load paid well enough to take it, so we did.

 

[davekc]

Give or take a few options, the tag or pusher will add roughly 2500 to your weight. Additionally, the axle placed in front of your drives is likely the way to go based on your information.
In that position, you can add air to the axle and as that is increased, the weight will transfer off of the front end when needed.
I would run it like it is now, and see how you run.
If you wait the six months you won't have to pay the FET tax.










Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[Moot]

They have explained that if they
>are sending a C truck to the customer, they cannot charge a
>D rate, even if we are carrying D weight.

That sounds completely assbackwards to me.

 

[JohnO]

I lease a D unit GVW 45,000
with Landstar Express America and when carrying E unit load I get paid E unit rate. I've also have carried B & C unit loads and have always been paid D unit rate.

 

[RLENT]

That sounds completely assbackwards to me.

Ahhhhh ....... yeah ......

That ain't the way it works where I'm at ..... the B-Rate is good to 2500 lbs and 2 skids .... after that it's C-rate.

Like JohnO says ..... the minimum rate ought to be what your truck is classed as, unit-wise ...... but if it's capable of and does haul more than it's unit size then you should get the higher unit rate.

 

[davekc]

If one is running D classed freight at C rates, that would be enough for me to have a billed pulled to see what the customer actually paid, regardless of what the dollar amount was.











Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[LDB]

I would not move the axle up unless/until I decided I will always keep it a 6 wheel truck. As Dave said, you would add the axle as a pusher in front of the current axle. I'd measure the distance to the rear axle centerline from the back of the truck and then get inside the box and mark that point inside with a Magic Marker. I'd load my weight from the doors forward using that point as a focal point and keep the weight toward the rear of the truck. If your 11360 number is with full fuel, all clothing etc. and both drivers in the front seats you should be fine as long as you keep the heavier pieces toward the rear.

Truthfully, I probably wouldn't add a tag/pusher to a Hino. With only 260hp and 585tq I just don't see it as having enough beans for more than 33k. Also, you still owe the FET regardless of when you add the axle. The 6 month window is the time when the dealer installing the axle is responsible for paying the tax and therefore collects it to send in. After 6 months the dealer has no responsibility so they don't mess with it but if you are audited you will owe the tax plus penalties and interest.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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