"Red-haired step-child" of the trucking industry

[brohammerllc]

I often joke that expediters are the " step-children" of the trucking industry, and like Rodney Dangerfield often said "get no respect". By defination (para 390.3) we are not considered "commercial vehicles" if not carrying HAZMAT, yet try and tell that to the motor carrier officer who pulls you over for a random inspection. The sign on the scale reads "All Commercial vehicles must weigh", but I get pulled over by the DOT officer for by-passing the scale. Some truck stops don't want you parking in the "car" parking areas, yet they also frown on you parking "around back" taking up a big-rig parking spot. And now Wal-Mart is cracking down on us parking in their lots.

It's really bad when it comes to transportation regulations.

We have a small expedited freight company. We only have cargo vans and SPRINTER type vehicles. Nothing over the 10,001 pound limit. We have an MC number, and carry $1 million in General Liability Insurance, $1 million in Auto Liability insurance, and $150K in cargo insurance. What we don't have is an DOT number.

We have been trying to work with a couple of brokers to haul their loads. However, some of them want DOT numbers, and won't sign us on unless we have one. Up to now, we didn't have to have one, but it seems that a recent change to the safety regulations dated October 23, 2015 seems to indicate that we need a DOT number.

Sure, it's easy to get one--just takes time, costs a couple of bucks, and it's the cost of doing business. However, it's another example of the fact that expediters are left out when the regulations are written--that our unique type of business is not considered when it comes to the rules being written and enforced.

So, help a fellow driver out. I am sure that some of you have gone down this path and have an answer. It might not be the answer that I want to hear, but it will help me out.

 

[Turtle]

There are two parts of the FMCSA's regulating and enforcement authority. One is the Safety regulations, and the other is the Commercial (operating authority) regulations. Safety regulations only apply to Commercial Motor Vehicles (of which cargo vans are not), and commercial regulations apply to for-hire commercial vehicles transporting passengers or hauling cargo in interstate commerce (of which cargo vans are). Prior to December 12, 2015, if you are subject to the Safety regulations (meeting the definition of CMV) then you were required to obtain a USDOT number for identification. If you were subject to the Commercial regulations, then an operating authority number (MC - Motor Carrier, FF - Freight Forwarded, MX - Mexico Motor Carrier) was required as identification. Obviously, most carriers, except van-only carriers, were required to obtain both a USDOT and MC number, while van-only carriers only needed the MC number.

With the Unified Registration System (URS) ruling in 2013, all those identifiers are combined into USDOT number identifier. Once the URS system is 100 percent up and running MC and other operating authority numbers will not be issued, and instead only USDOT numbers will be issued. For new applicants for registration with the FMCSA (those without either a DOT# or am MC#), as of December 12, 2015 they are to register via the electronic URS system to obtain their USDOT number. Those who are already registered with the FMCSA (those with either or both a DOT# and MC#) will continue to use the legacy system to obtain additional operating authorities or to obtain a USDOT number, until September 30, 2016.

Once you have a USDOT number, your MC number is no longer valid. Far as I know, those already registered with the FMCSA (have an MC#) who do not have a DOT# can get a DOT# for free by updating their registration. You may have to file as a new applicant, but somewhere in there they'll ask if you already have an MC#, so the fee should be zero.

The FMCSA rules apply to everyone the same, so I'm not sure how expediting is different. A for-hire carrier is exactly the same whether they are a TL, LTL or expedite carrier, whether they operate heavy vehicles or only cargo vans. The sign at the scales that say "All Commercial vehicles must weigh" is refined in state law, and with very, very, very few exceptions (Michigan) they use the same definition as the USDOT. Some Walmarts don't allow truck/van/RV parking, some do.

You will simply be exchanging your MC# for a DOT#.

The FMCSA doesn't mandate that the MC numbers be removed from vehicles, but they do suggest they not be placed on new or newly repainted vehicles. Just the DOT# is all you need.

 

[Moot]

So, help a fellow driver out. I am sure that some of you have gone down this path and have an answer. It might not be the answer that I want to hear, but it will help me out.

What exactly is the question?

 

[wayneygogo]

Yes I have purposely stopped at a couple weigh in locations. I forget the two states, but the officer told me, all commercial vehicles under 10,000 pounds don't have to stop. In Ohio, it is required to have a commercial tag on a cargo van if I pick up or drop off in Ohio. BMV, told me if an officer pulled me over picking up or dropping off in Ohio that I could be fined heavily. Which ultimately makes a commercial vehicle.

 

[wayneygogo]

Now that Ohio is requiring that my van be commercialized, am i subject to those commercial regulations(MC or USDOT #) maybe not because I am under 10,000 pounds. When I called the USDOT in the beginning of this year, they specifically said they did not require an MC number or USDOT number. So it seems prior to December 12th 2015, most states would require a commercial tag if picking up and dropping in your home state , regardless of the weight.

 

[tknight]

I've seen commercial tag on cars used in delivery service in Ohio
A vehicle that is used in commerce requires a commercial tag it's not that much more than a few dollars difference . Under 10k gvw you do not need an mc number or us dot number. Although some carriers may require it

 

[Turtle]

A commercial tag is for state tax and vehicle registration purposes, nothing more. It has nothing to do with the DOT or the FMCSA or any other federal entity.

It is very important to know and understand the difference between these two terms:
Commercial Vehicle
Commercial Motor Vehicle

A Commercial Vehicle is any vehicle used in commerce, be it a big truck or cargo van or a personal car that is designed and used for carrying merchandise or freight. A Toyota Camry that is used to deliver office supplies by the store is a Commercial Vehicle.

Commercial Motor Vehicle (as defined in US 49CFR section § 390.5: Definitions) means,
any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or​

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or​

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or​

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.​

The FMCSA Safety Rules and Regulations (Hours of Service, vehicle inspections, etc.) apply to all Commercial Motor Vehicles. They do not apply to unregulated vehicles which do not meet the criteria of the definition of Commercial Motor Vehicle.

The USDOT now requires that any vehicle that engages in interstate commerce for-hire to have a USDOT number. This includes both Commercial Vehicle and Commercial Motor Vehicles. The USDOT number tracks operating authority and does not make an unregulated vehicle a Commercial Motor Vehicle that is subject to the FMCSA Safety Rules and Regulations.

In the past if you were not driving a Commercial Motor Vehicle but were required to have Motor Carrier operating authority (MC#) because you moved freight across state lines, you are now required to have a USDOT number instead of the MC number, as the MC# will no longer be valid. Nothing else changes. You're still not a Commercial Motor Vehicle, you don't have to log and scale and visit weigh stations, nor are you subject to being randomly stopped and inspected without probable cause.

The long and short of it is, if you're in a cargo van and have an MC#, you simply need to trade it in for a DOT#. Everything else stays exactly the same.

 

[tknight]

So all of the new mc number enrolled just basically wasted 300$ is what that means!

 

[Turtle]

So all of the new mc number enrolled just basically wasted 300$ is what that means!

Not really. If you apply today, as a new applicant for a DOT number, just to get what is in effect an MC# (registration as a for-hire motor carrier to enable you to transport interstate freight), you have to pay the same $300 fee, even though you'll just get the DOT number instead of the MC#. If you are currently registered with the DOT with an MC#, you can change it to a DOT number for free. Until September of 2016.

After September 2016, it's $300 for each distinct type of registration you want. $300 for the for-hire registration, $300 for the Safety registration (if you operate CMVs, for what used to be the free DOT#), $300 for property broker, $300 for freight forwarder, etc.

The full text of the Federal Register is here:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-10-21/pdf/2015-26625.pdf
B. Part 360, Fees for Motor Carrier Registration and Insurance is where the fees are located. It's about 4 pages down in the PDF.

 

[tknight]

Clears that up, glad I got mine 5 years ago, snooze you lose apparently