Planned Parenthood's Problem vs. Capitalism

Turtle

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Wow - you just know that those who dropped out "didn't want to do any of it", huh?
That was the most often cited reason by those interviewed, yes.
It's not even a possibility that some [maybe many] were perfectly willing to comply, but were rejected for employment [for any one of a dozen reasons], and training [lack of interest, ability, or possibly the same reason I didn't get government paid training, and had to pay for nursing school myself: the training program was limited to people already collecting welfare], and even volunteering, because organizations don't simply accept any & every one who says they'd like to help.
Nope. Some people were rejected for employment, but the training programs are not restricted in any way for those who are rejected for employment or simply can't find suitable employment. And volunteering was not limited to organizations that are your traditional volunteer organizations. Anyone and everyone who wanted to volunteer was placed somewhere.

They [orgs] can't afford to, because of the potential for liability, should a 'volunteer' turn out to be a legal liability, after they've done something bad.
The state assumes all legal liability in those cases (none of which so far has occurred).
Also too, "not mentally ill" means "not officially diagnosed", which doesn't mean not strange, odd, weird, or whatever can put people off. Maybe just kind of obnoxious. The kind of snotty know-it-all that everyone wants to clock within minutes of encountering them. Maybe they have offensive tattoos, or facial jewelry - who knows?
What kind of wackos and weirdos, and just how many of them do you think there are in Maine? Youre describing, I dunno, maybe one out of a hundred, not 6000 out of 6000. No, the majority of people were not rejected for employment, training or volunteering because they were creepy or weird. Sheesh

The assumption that they just 'don't wanna' is unfounded due to lack of evidence. Also pretty snotty, IMO.
Except the evidence is right there in Maine for all to see.

There are going to be some, sure, but I don't think it's accurate [or fair] to assume that all or most people 'don't wanna', because : Maslow's hierarchy.
They're are going to be some, sure, but I don't think it's accurate [or reasonably intelligent] to assume that all or even more than a fraction of a percent fall into the BS categories you claim above as to why such a massive number of people removed themselves from the program.

This is not something you need to speculate by grasping at straws, the data is right there for anyone to see.

I wasn't kidding when I said liberals are furious over this. You certainly are. They're furious because the real-life outcome contradicts the agenda.
 

davekc

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I am sure there are a percentage that want to work, but it has to be on their terms or they "don't wanna". Seen quite a few of those interviews and even when training and just about everything is offered, the vast majority don't want to be bothered. A lot of it is just people don't want to work, and I think some of it is people working off the books and collecting benefits at the same time. Tough to volunteer or go to a career training center when you really have employment that you are trying to hide.
Funny how the entitlement crowd never mentions that.
 
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cheri1122

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That was the most often cited reason by those interviewed, yes.
Nope. Some people were rejected for employment, but the training programs are not restricted in any way for those who are rejected for employment or simply can't find suitable employment. And volunteering was not limited to organizations that are your traditional volunteer organizations. Anyone and everyone who wanted to volunteer was placed somewhere.

The state assumes all legal liability in those cases (none of which so far has occurred).
What kind of wackos and weirdos, and just how many of them do you think there are in Maine? Youre describing, I dunno, maybe one out of a hundred, not 6000 out of 6000. No, the majority of people were not rejected for employment, training or volunteering because they were creepy or weird. Sheesh

Except the evidence is right there in Maine for all to see.

They're are going to be some, sure, but I don't think it's accurate [or reasonably intelligent] to assume that all or even more than a fraction of a percent fall into the BS categories you claim above as to why such a massive number of people removed themselves from the program.

This is not something you need to speculate by grasping at straws, the data is right there for anyone to see.

I wasn't kidding when I said liberals are furious over this. You certainly are. They're furious because the real-life outcome contradicts the agenda.

I can't find any "interviews" with people who chose to withdraw from the food stamp program because they don't want to work, so where are they? [Anecdotal we can all find, that's not what you meant, right?]
I can find plenty of evidence that unemployed people do want to work, though. Today's [Memphis] Commercial Appeal has an article about a job fair for Tanger Outlets [Mall] that cites the mall manager's statement that such job fairs attract thousands of applicants, anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000. And these are retail jobs, not exactly known for high wages and/or good bennies. Nor is it an anomaly, we've seen the same thing happen many times & places.
I found plenty of evidence that Maine Gov LePage knows why people are collecting benefits [the jobs they want don't exist], but he "inherited a budget in severe distress" and he promised to fix that. One of his first acts was to reduce the amount sent to counties & cities through revenue sharing, [a modest cut in his first budget, but a huge cut in the following year's], which forces the counties & cities to replace the revenue by raising taxes. This makes citizens mad at the city & county officials, rather than LePage. [Whose approval rating is currently around 30% anyway].
LePage stressed that Maine needs to "bring in employers, and retain employers", and also that Maine is losing young adult residents at an alarming rate. [Maybe a lot of those who dropped off the food stamp rolls just gave up and moved to another state, following those who figured it out already. More likely, many took part time jobs, when what they need & want are full time jobs.] To address the issues of employment [lack of], LePage held several "Town Councils" to brainstorm. Invited were local employers from the small to the large [Pratt & Whitney], but oddly, none of the actually unemployed. It seems to me that solutions need to address the problem of both sides, ie: why employers aren't hiring, [I'd say a lack of demand for their product/service] and why potential employees aren't getting jobs. Since this is the usual practice, [asking one side, not the other] it would seem that the officials don't really want to know what the issues & obstacles are for the unemployed.
We all know that if they actually had any proof that the reason is "don't wanna", they'd be showing it, but all they provide is anecdotal. Like LePage, who says the voters are sick of the food stamp abuse they see every day, offers zero proof of either statement: that a large number of voters are "sick of the abuse they see" or that it is abuse.
Maine's LePage is typical of Republicans: his state needs more money, but he doesn't want to go after those who can benefit him or his friends, so he goes for the easy targets: those who can't afford to fight back. Not only does he go after them, he insults and demeans them, because: politics.
 

Turtle

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I can't find any "interviews" with people who chose to withdraw from the food stamp program because they don't want to work, so where are they? [Anecdotal we can all find, that's not what you meant, right?]
Articles in the local newspapers of Maine.

I can find plenty of evidence that unemployed people do want to work, though.
I can, too. Some very much want to work. Some very much don't want to work.

We all know that if they actually had any proof that the reason is "don't wanna", they'd be showing it, but all they provide is anecdotal. Like LePage, who says the voters are sick of the food stamp abuse they see every day, offers zero proof of either statement: that a large number of voters are "sick of the abuse they see" or that it is abuse.
What kind of proof, specifically, would satisfy you?
 

cheri1122

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Articles in the local newspapers of Maine.

I've read several articles in local papers [my favorite kind], haven't seen a single reference to anyone who withdrew after the regs were changed. Regs that were part of welfare reform originally, [federal], but states asked for permission to grant waivers on the work/training rules according to local conditions. LePage simply stopped granting the waivers, without demonstrating a material change in conditions. Since he stressed bringing more jobs into the state, it doesn't look like the prospect of getting a job improved very much. Another thing he stressed was the dire straits he inherited [fiscally speaking], which points to a motive for wanting to make the economic picture look better than it actually was/is.

I can, too. Some very much want to work. Some very much don't want to work.

Nobody claims that the 'don't wannas' don't exist. But they are like 'voter fraud': a miniscule problem made to look much bigger in order to justify actions that are motivated by mistaken [no matter how widely held] beliefs. LePage mentions voters who are angry about the "abuse", but we know who they are: the ones who see someone paying with food stamps for things they 'shouldn't' be enjoying, and complain about it. Other than that, he's got nothin.

What kind of proof, specifically, would satisfy you?

How about the same things that prove anything? Facts. Just the facts, Jack.;)
 

cheri1122

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Governor Lepage is apparently no fan of truth getting in the way of his ideology: he made a speech about eliminating the state income tax [which he wants to do], in which he claimed that the income tax is why Maine resident Stephen King was now living in Florida. King was quick to respond, saying he and his wife had paid more than $1 million in state tax the previous year, and were happy to pay it, because they kind of like things like roads and education, and the other stuff the tax pays for. And they also donated a large sum to a charitable cause, because it's the right thing to do, if you can afford it. Also too, they don't live in Florida, but have a home there to escape the one thing they don't love about Maine: the winter weather. He thought Governor Lepage owes him and his wife an apology, but so far, he shouldn't hold his breath.
I have always liked Stephen King, even though many of his books are not to my taste, and little vignettes like this are why: he has integrity. [Plus, he lets his wife Tabby borrow his characters & settings in her books, and she is a pretty good writer too.] The fact that he plays in a band [The Rock Bottom Remainders] with several of my other favorite writers [Amy Tan, Dave Barry, and some guy whose name I can never remember] is just lagniappe. He is good people.
Lepage cut food stamps for no other reason than his own ideology, and that of the citizens who tell him how they saw someone using food stamps to buy lobster, because that's what constitutes 'proof' in his mind. And if people have to go dumpster diving for dinner because of it, so what? Does that make him a bad person?
Yes, it does.
 

Turtle

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Under Texas law, someone can be charged with tampering with a governmental record if he or she “makes, presents, or uses any record, document, or thing with knowledge of its falsity and with intent that it be taken as a genuine governmental record.”

They presented fake California driver's licenses as their ID.

Under Texas law, an offender violates the Prohibition of the Purchase and Sale of Human Organs if “he knowingly or intentionally offers to buy, offers to sell, acquires, receives, sells, or transfers any human organ for valuable consideration.”

Dood tried to buy fetal tissue, offering compensation that is implied to go beyond or “higher” than what is legally permissible, and films himself doing it in order to snag Planned Parenthood. That didn't go his way.

Oddly enough, the tampering with a governmental record is a second-degree felony (2-20 years and up to $10,000), and Daleiden’s additional indictment for soliciting human organs is only a Class A misdemeanor (up to 1 year and up to $4,000). Class A misdemeanors include carrying a gun without a permit, and being a pimp. I would have thought pimping human organs wouldn't be as bad as trying to buy them outright.
 
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cheri1122

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Grand Jury Indicts Abortion Foes Behind Undercover Videos

Oh, look at that. PP cleared of wrongdoing, videographers indicted for being filthy liars.

Saw that coming. Par for the course.

I sure didn't. Grand juries are notoriously the prosecutor's party to choreograph, and they nearly always do as the prosecutor [not so subtly] desires.
Kudos to the people who did their job, following the facts instead of the emotional hysteria of "Baby body parts!".
Governor Abbott says he won't let it interfere with his investigation, of course. If he didn't let the investigations of 11 other states that found no wrongdoing, plus 3 Congressional inquiries, why let some boobs on a grand jury bother him? I wonder if he knows that his stated intention to end the practice of repurposing "human body parts" [once the original owner has no further need of them] would mean an end to organ transplants...
 
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