People in TX are backwards

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Obviously most know my positions on religion so clearly this is not a lib attack on religion.

I can't believe that they are fighting teaching evolution in school.Trying to put your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes tight won't make the theory of evolution go away. My 7th grade teacher simply started the class by saying "I am not here to challenge your beliefs but I am here to educate you on this theory, right or wrong". She happened to be a Christian but was not afraid to teach different ideas.

Evolution debate again engulfs Texas board
 

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
Obviously most know my positions on religion so clearly this is not a lib attack on religion.

I can't believe that they are fighting teaching evolution in school.Trying to put your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes tight won't make the theory of evolution go away. My 7th grade teacher simply started the class by saying "I am not here to challenge your beliefs but I am here to educate you on this theory, right or wrong". She happened to be a Christian but was not afraid to teach different ideas.

Evolution debate again engulfs Texas board

It's not only Texas though they do seem especially dense down there... It is everywhere. An intelligent person considers all options and forms a conclusion based on their powers of discernment. An individual who chooses to encapsulate themself in a single philosophy and demonizes any opposing view is kind of a dope...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It's not only Texas though they do seem especially dense down there... It is everywhere. An intelligent person considers all options and forms a conclusion based on their powers of discernment. An individual who chooses to encapsulate themself in a single philosophy and demonizes any opposing view is kind of a dope...

Why is it then that few schools teach creationism? Why do they not teach the Bible, the Koran or other religions "books"? Would not the "anti-religion" types be fighting that in the courts tooth and nail? I guess there are many "dopes" out there, and it would seem that, they don't all live in Texas and that they don't all believe in creationism. I guess that they must therefor be afraid to challenge their long held beliefs.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Why is it then that few schools teach creationism? Why do they not teach the Bible, the Koran or other religions "books"? Would not the "anti-religion" types be fighting that in the courts tooth and nail? I guess there are many "dopes" out there, and it would seem that, they don't all live in Texas and that they don't all believe in creationism. I guess that they must therefor be afraid to challenge their long held beliefs.

I would say creationism isn't taught because it isn't science which for some reason people view as an adversary of religion. I have learned a lot about science and biology but none of it has ever made me think that God doesn't exist, I just view it as his tool.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I would say creationism isn't taught because it isn't science which for some reason people view as an adversary of religion. I have learned a lot about science and biology but none of it has ever made me think that God doesn't exist, I just view it as his tool.

School is for learning. One cannot learn if a major part of human beliefs and ideas are banned from our schools.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
It is all about not hurting feelings or offending someone. More often than not, someone that isn't even there.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is all about not hurting feelings or offending someone. More often than not, someone that isn't even there.

I believe that the "PC" thing is a smoke screen. They pull that "card" out when they want to suppress ideas that may differ.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
School is for learning. One cannot learn if a major part of human beliefs and ideas are banned from our schools.

True. The problem is that the believers in Creationism want it to be taught on the same level as evolution: in science class, as an accepted theory. But it isn't on the same level, because evolution has been validated by fact, and nothing has been found to discredit it. Creationism is a construct of belief, not fact, and there's no evidence to support it.
Religion should be taught, as part of history, and in a comparative manner. It does not belong in the science curriculum any more than English lit or Greek mythology.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
True. The problem is that the believers in Creationism want it to be taught on the same level as evolution: in science class, as an accepted theory. But it isn't on the same level, because evolution has been validated by fact, and nothing has been found to discredit it. Creationism is a construct of belief, not fact, and there's no evidence to support it.
Religion should be taught, as part of history, and in a comparative manner. It does not belong in the science curriculum any more than English lit or Greek mythology.

It is not up to anyone individual to decide where or how the history of religion, or faith, should be taught. Even many parts of "evolution" are still being debated and contested. How it all started, cannot be proven by anyone. Where the matter came from, etc.

The study of religions etc, SHOULD be an "elective", a CHOICE. Evolution, which ever version of it, proven or not, should be discussed in science class.

The problem with those who don't want religion taught, is they believe in some strange idea that is some how violates the 1st Amendment, it does not. Congress is not involved, therefor, there is NO violation. States and schools can teach what ever they want. At least in a Country that adheres to the Constitution. The federal courts should never get involved until the Congress of the United States attempts to establish a religion.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It is not up to anyone individual to decide where or how the history of religion, or faith, should be taught.

It's up to the school board, in most places. They generally accept the advice of professional educators when deciding on curriculum & textbooks. Which is what this incident is about: a science textbook.

Even many parts of "evolution" are still being debated and contested. How it all started, cannot be proven by anyone. Where the matter came from, etc.

That's why it's called a 'theory'. The point is that every additional discovery has corroborated it, and not one has refuted it. It is supported by facts, which creationism is not.

The study of religions etc, SHOULD be an "elective", a CHOICE. Evolution, which ever version of it, proven or not, should be discussed in science class.

I believe religion should be an integral part of history, as it has been an integral part of human experience and affairs. How do you explain the Crusades, or Henry the 8th's break from the Church to found the Church of England, if you don't teach religion? How do you describe Marin Luther? Or John Calvin? Or our own Puritan ancestors?

The problem with those who don't want religion taught, is they believe in some strange idea that is some how violates the 1st Amendment, it does not. Congress is not involved, therefor, there is NO violation. States and schools can teach what ever they want. At least in a Country that adheres to the Constitution. The federal courts should never get involved until the Congress of the United States attempts to establish a religion.

I've never heard of anyone who didn't want religion to be taught - until you suggested it should be an elective. The disagreement is over teaching Creationism in science class, not ignoring religion as if it never existed, or played a major role in shaping our past. [And present.]
Nobody's talking about the Constitution, either, except you. Damifino why, as it has nothing to do with the subject....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I've never heard of anyone who didn't want religion to be taught - until you suggested it should be an elective. The disagreement is over teaching Creationism in science class, not ignoring religion as if it never existed, or played a major role in shaping our past. [And present.]
Nobody's talking about the Constitution, either, except you. Damifino why, as it has nothing to do with the subject....

The Constitution has EVERYTHING to do with this. Not want religion taught? You can find many in here that go on about that. Many want bibles removed from our schools. Prayer is not allowed. Law suits are filed to stop them. Most suits are filed on the grounds that the government cannot "establish" a religion. The 1st Amendment ONLY states that the Congress cannot establish a religion. The states and communities are not mentioned.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
You don't seem to grasp the difference between teaching [about] religion and practicing it. The former is a vital necessity, the latter is not a part of public schools.
It's like sex education: students should learn about it, but practice is prohibited in school. ;)
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The problem with those who don't want religion taught, is they believe in some strange idea that is some how violates the 1st Amendment, it does not. Congress is not involved, therefor, there is NO violation.
Wrong - if the school receives any form of federal funding then not only is Congress involved, but the Executive Branch as well (at a minimum):

All funds are fungible ...
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Wrong - if the school receives any form of federal funding then not only is Congress involved, but the Executive Branch as well (at a minimum):

All funds are fungible ...

The federal government has NO business in education. ALL education SHOULD be a LOCAL effort so that the LOCAL people can have control over it.

The federal government has overstepped it's authority by getting involved in education. Doing so gives them FAR too much power. That power much be removed. The Dept of ED MUST be done away with and federal funding and controls must be removed.

The power belongs in the States and communities.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You don't seem to grasp the difference between teaching [about] religion and practicing it. The former is a vital necessity, the latter is not a part of public schools.
It's like sex education: students should learn about it, but practice is prohibited in school. ;)

Excuse me? I fully understand the difference between teaching about and teaching religion. What is taught, or not taught in public schools, is an issue that should solely be determined by the individual school district. The problems we see now is a direct result of the federal government sticking it's nose where it has NO business.
 

VTurri

Seasoned Expediter
What if evolution is the means in which creationism works? Why does it have to be this way or that way?

Children should be taught all points of view and allowed to make up their own minds.

I will not send my children to any school that.doesn't allow my child to be a free thinker.
 
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