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Panther is a scam.

ericmoss37

Seasoned Expediter
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I was a owner for over two years at Panther and they get you comming in going with fees. Not only do they get big profits off the freight, but they like to make profits off the owners. Example I sold my last truck to a new contractor. They would not give him the rate I got until they removed the QC and charged me a $250 dollar fee. While you are a contractor they rape you with stupid messaging fees on the QC. I serviced their customers 100% for two years and they have the nerve to deduct in my final check some pads and straps that they claim to have bought. 200 dollars a week for base plates while the truck was being repaired for the new owner. By the way they also charged him $140 dollars a week. My advice is to stay away from these scam artists and they need to be taken to court. They are in business of using the contractors until they go broke and then suckering more people to take over. I was lucky to have a bunch of FedEx Ground trucks to keep me going. I actually made a lot of money in the future by getting out of this horrible business. I am sure all the carriers are the same, but Panther is the largest and should be ashamed of themselves.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
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So not to pee on your leg but why didn't you remove the qualcomm unit yourself and why didn't you buy your own plates?

I mean when I sold my van and got rid of the truck that I 'got', the first thing I did was to take out the unit and FedEx them back to the companies where they came from - no charge to me.

As for the plate, I debated over the idea of having the company "take care of it" for me but I IF I was going to move the truck to another company, it was one more step I would have had to deal with and I don't like to take too many of them.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
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I was a owner for over two years at Panther and they get you comming in going with fees. Not only do they get big profits off the freight, but they like to make profits off the owners. Example I sold my last truck to a new contractor. They would not give him the rate I got until they removed the QC and charged me a $250 dollar fee. While you are a contractor they rape you with stupid messaging fees on the QC. I serviced their customers 100% for two years and they have the nerve to deduct in my final check some pads and straps that they claim to have bought. 200 dollars a week for base plates while the truck was being repaired for the new owner. By the way they also charged him $140 dollars a week. My advice is to stay away from these scam artists and they need to be taken to court. They are in business of using the contractors until they go broke and then suckering more people to take over. I was lucky to have a bunch of FedEx Ground trucks to keep me going. I actually made a lot of money in the future by getting out of this horrible business. I am sure all the carriers are the same, but Panther is the largest and should be ashamed of themselves.

I think your a little confused padre with how this works. First off, your contract is SEPERATE from the person that bought your truck. Your rate or anything else has zero to do with him/her.
If your contract was not closed, you were likely being charged for the base plates. Having it repaired doesn't negate that. The new persons plates began at the start of his contract. His rate is lower because again........a different and new contract. Not sure why you would use their base plates anyways, but that is another thread.
Now on to QC messages. I have never heard of a charge for individual messaging. You have a weekly charge if YOU ELECTED to have the text feature. That is totally optional and if charged, you signed up for it. You got charged the qc install/removal fee because they removed it and that is part of both contracts. If you moved it to another one of YOUR trucks, then it is waived.
Additionally, their likely wasn't a charge to install it on the front end. That depends on how old your contract is. As for pads and straps, you likely signed them out. If attached to a specific load, they will have the pro and all the information with how you obtained them. Not hard to get that info.
I'm game for everything being free, but that isn't the case with most carriers. Have to read and understand how it all works with every carrier. Maybe a lesson or observation for the new folks.
Sorry, but at the end of the day, I'm not seeing a scam here.
 

ericmoss37

Seasoned Expediter
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It's complicated because I was going to lose a lot of money or RI state tax and burn 1000's in fuel to get the vin checked by the state. Base plates are $25 dollars a week and all of a sudden I have two deductions for $200 bucks that say base plates. The truck has been getting worked on for a few weeks. I had three trucks and I bought them all in the midwest. I was too far away to remove it myself.
 

ericmoss37

Seasoned Expediter
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Right I know my contract is different from his. We tried for a few weeks to get them to change the rate because my team was making $1.35 and no one wants to lose money. They refused and we proceeded to take the truck back to Panther so I could sell the truck. After they removed the QC and they saw that the truck was leaving they decided to bump their rate up .15 cents so they could keep the truck on. The point is the QC could have been just transfered. Fighting with them over a rate cost my old team time and money to drop the truck off and then have to go get it again. The new owner has lost time and money in the process.
 

davekc

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Fleet Owner
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It's complicated because I was going to lose a lot of money or RI state tax and burn 1000's in fuel to get the vin checked by the state. Base plates are $25 dollars a week and all of a sudden I have two deductions for $200 bucks that say base plates. The truck has been getting worked on for a few weeks. I had three trucks and I bought them all in the midwest. I was too far away to remove it myself.

I am not even going to try to dissect this. Not sure what RI state tax has to do with anything, but ok. These are your situations that have little to do with Panther. If a deduction is in error, find out the specifics. They will give you a printout of every date that it was deducted and in what amounts. But I do understand your frustration with trying to get it all worked out.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
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Complicated? I guess...

Here is what I would have done.

I would have established a company for that truck. Moved the truck into the company via an asset transfer from what I assume is your personal ownership.

I would have then sold the company to the new owner and let them have everything, all the fees and escrow would have been part of the sale price. Transfer the stock to the new owner and that's it.

The contract with Panther for that truck would also be intact and hence the same rate would have gone to the new owner with the qualcomm and everything else.
 

Deville

Not a Member
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What does RI have anything to do with anything. I have been Apportioned there for 10 years never had an issue, fill in my miles, pay the bill when it comes in the mail DONE.

I undertsnd your frustration, believe me I do. All these company's have polices that make you tear the hair outta your head. You mentioned you have trucks on with ground; How are they doing. Most Ground drivers I know & have met can't wait to get out.
 

ericmoss37

Seasoned Expediter
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Actually I am doing well at Home Delivery. I have been with them for eight years now. I have four routes and we have been going through changes with the lawsuit forcing them to change. We are now considered independent service providers and we have one big contract. I was able to negociate a fair contract for the first time. They used to give us raises and all, but they set the market. the key is the saftey and service bonus you get monthly if you do a good job. They should have that in expediting as well. It's a big deal because you get rewarded 2250 a month if you have no accidents or customer issues. The fuel is cheap as we can run sprinters on 50 mile delievery routes. We also get .30 cents per stop towards fuel. Panther actually cost me money over the past few years and a lot of grief. I had a guy stoned out of his mind drive the truck into a low bridge. I paid 40K for the truck, but truck values dropped fast and I ended up with 19K in my pocket and still a truck loan. One of my other drivers was just fired from his new owners fleet because he tested positive on a random. All I can is my friend that I made while selling my last truck to him said that he has trucks on with several carriers and the fees at Panther are by far the worst he's ever experienced. $50 bucks a week for QC plus $38 dollar weekly messaging fee. Yes I understand I could have taken the truck to RI from the mid west had the vin inspected and paid the taxes on the sale. I chose to get the trucks on the road fast by avoiding empty moviing them to RI. I guess the real argument is base plates do not cost $400 bucks for four weeks. I am thrilled to be out. I am waiting on $7500 in truck escrow that belongs to me and my final pro's have been delayed three weeks because the drivers put the plate on to transit the truck up to Battle Creek. Final statlement is I have a trusted garage to share in Springfield MI. The place is called Sellen Repair. IRV owns the business and he's very fair. He gave me 5 weeks to pay him 5K and he releases the truck every time. They own trucks themselves and understand what it's like to be a truck owner.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
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Fleet Owner
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The text fee is 2.50 a week if one decides they want it, and the highest I have ever heard for a QC weekly charge is 35.00
Maybe they changed something?
Are you sure you don't have that confused with the drivers personal accident insurance? QC might be 38 IF you have that texting option. Again, you have to elect to have that.
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
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What does RI have anything to do with anything. I have been Apportioned there for 10 years never had an issue, fill in my miles, pay the bill when it comes in the mail DONE.

I'm not even going to touch most of the concerns raised here, but I'm going to put my two cents in on something I've observed lately.

We have a few recruiting ads running and I've been getting some calls on them. It seems that all of the owners who are asking if the company can take care of the plates live in New England. All I can gather is that there is a pretty big price difference between the states up there and what it costs in Ohio. Just a thought.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
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Try to be calm, and contact Panther to ask them to go through each charge with you, item by item, so that you know exactly what and why you're being charged.

From what you have posted, it looks like you are throwing in everything but the proverbial kitchen sink, and may be mixing up a whole pile of different issues and charges and maybe even trucks, into one big confused pot.

The way that carriers show their various charges on settlement sheets can be really confusing. I haven't seen all carriers' settlement sheets, but I have seen enough to know that one really needs to educate themselves on what everything means and what exactly you're paying for every single thing. I like to break everything out so that one can know exactly what they're paying for separate things, rather than just taking the bottom line figure as revenue. It can be time consuming depending on how convoluted the carrier likes to make it, but it's worth it to at least know what everything is actually costing in reality.

My guess is that Panther has a reasonable explanation for each charge, if only you would take the time to understand each of them. Your post is too difficult to follow as far as the base plates and going or not going to RI. It sounds like perhaps you chose one way of dealing with it over another way, but each way had its own set of financial implications. If you counted on Panther to look after paying whatever fees/taxes were owing on baseplates instead of dh'ing to RI yourself, Panther would need to recoup those costs, correct?

Sometimes the carrier will pay for things upfront on behalf of an owner, and then bill the owner on a weekly/monthly basis to reimburse themselves. While this is convenient for the owner at the time and the carrier is doing the owner a favor, if a contract comes to an end before the carrier is completely reimbursed, the carrier still needs to be compensated for the balance. This is where I think many owners get confused at the end and feel like they're getting ripped off, when in fact, they may not be.

Bringing the value of your truck, and unfortunate accidents, and unfortunate drivers into the discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with Panther. It is part of the trucking industry that your truck is highly devalued way sooner than your payments might end. It's called being upside down in your lease/loan. If you happen to sell it during that time, you are SOL. In the case of an unfortunate accident where the truck is totalled during this time, an insurer will only pay for what the truck is worth, and not what is owing on the truck, but there is insurance for that potentially big difference, called 'gap insurance'.

Charles, in another post, was asking what 'perks' drivers are seeking when looking for a new carrier. It seems that many drivers/owners want carriers to look after certain things for them, and that's great, but it still costs money that needs to be paid back. Having the carrier do things for you may look like a great deal until the deal is over and the money owed is suddenly due and recouped.

To me this looks like one of those cases where perhaps the expediting industry looked simple and easy and straight forward and just rode with the flow, found it not as financially rewarding as expected, and got out of it, without ever really understanding it. If one doesn't decipher what they're paying for, understand the industry, read their contract, or look at the fine print, then how can any kind of meaningful business decisions be made along the way?

PS Do carriers really charge TWO HUNDRED bucks a month for the privilege of loaning drivers a QC????
(<pjjjjj> considers getting into the QC business)

And $38 per WEEK for 'messaging'?? I would really like to see the proof on that one!
 

Dynamite 1

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Fleet Owner
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i have never done plates through the carrier. to expensive. the true scam is the plates. personally, i dont know how a carrier can justify charging 1200 a year for plates for a strait truck out of ohio. i am in IL. and plates are between 5 and 650 a year depending on mileage. so that means administrative fees of 550 a year to do a plate app. they already have the mileages. makes no sense and all carriers who charge that much of a premium over the true cost should be hit with gouging. a small fee is understandable for filing, the rest is b/s and shouldnt be allowed.

as far as the rest of the story, you have to be diligent and follow the procedures. if they were in the contract then that is the way it is. you just have to verify all the charges by making them produce the evidence. some carriers have lots of charges but most of the time they are all stated in the contract. its up to you to sign an accept it or negotiate. hope it all works out.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
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How does it work when a carrier looks after plates? Does that mean they do all the filings? Does that mean they do their filings collectively, using all of the vehicles in their fleet, as opposed to each single vehicle? Is it to their financial advantage to do this, because they have more trucks going to more places, so they can easily offset the times they'd have to pay out?

I am wondering because when we had a small straight that did NOT have apportioned plates, the carrier still wanted 'copies' of our fuel receipts, even though they had zero to do with our fuel purchases. The plates were not apportioned, however they did have the plates under their name. Why would they want copies of fuel purchases if not to use it on their filings? But then they also (as I understand it) bill the OOs for any monies payable? I'm wondering if it all adds up to another one of those secondary 'profit centres'.

It was really a lot of work to get out of everything our carrier had tied into... plates... insurance... it was rough getting our own truck put back into all of our own stuff. I would recommend getting everything on one's own as it makes it simpler, easier, and less expensive if you wish to leave the carrier at some point.
 
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bentleytech1

Seasoned Expediter
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Ok, I'm an "almost newbe (still doing my due diligence), so I expect to maybe take some heat for this post. That's OK, I'm a big boy.

Now seems to me and from what I have read in these forums, that this may be the same kind of post that was removed just a few days ago. So..................are we consistently inconsistent?? And I guess it can be because it's a private web site and forum, but it kind of makes me wonder.

Secondly, I think that he may have forgotten that this IS A BUSINESS. That means that you need to read and UNDERSTAND the contractual agreements that you are signing. You need to understand what you are paying for, what the carrier is paying for, and how the carrier gets reimbursed. Did you do your Due Diligence??

Thirdly, your an independent contractor. Why would you ever want the carrier to do your base plates?? Isn't that a Cost of Doing Business??

Fourth, probably a good thing that you sold the truck and got out of the business. From all of my "training and education" on EO, I would say that there is more to this business than just driving!! It's really about RUNNING A BUSINESS!! It's not easy being in business for your self. I've been there, done that, and probably will do it again, maybe even as an expedite O/O / driver. As with most things and certainly with business, the works not done till the paperwork is done!! Not always fun, but then that's why it's called WORK. Driving, meeting people, seeing new places, and getting paid for it is the fun part. The hard part is doing the paperwork, keeping the books, and trying to figure out how to make a little money doing it.

For those that have been reading some of the posts that I have had in the "Newbe Forum", they will see that I am moving slowly, and carefully as I consider this BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY.

Sorry it didn't work for you. It just isn't right for everyone, but there are enough people making money at this and enjoying "the life" that it continues to hold my interest, and is worthy of my time to investigate and fully understand, before signing on the dotted line for a truck and with any carrier.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
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Fleet Owner
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It didn't get removed based on the length of time he has been a member.
 

bentleytech1

Seasoned Expediter
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Also.....before accepting freight that required straps and pads, did you find out what the requirements were for getting them back to the carrier or the shipper? Did you not have the required equipment to accept this kind of freight?? I think these items are part of the "tools of the trade" and if you were going to take this kind of freight, you would have the tools required. Seems like an awful lot left to chance and/or just not understanding.
I wish you better success in you future endeavorers.
 

Dabus1952

Seasoned Expediter
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I guess my Question would be? If you were unhappy with Panther then seeing how you have 4 routes with Fed Ex home delivery.Why didnt you place your truck's with Fed Ex c/c ? I think the real issue here is not Panther but the poor quality of driver's you gave your truck's to .I have been in transportation industry since 1970 .The biggest problem in this industry is good Quality driver's. When you find one, you need to keep them happy . I would find it hard to believe ,that Panther gave the driver drug's so he could crash your truck.Also I dont know what you paid for the base plate, But I dont think Panther over charged you. I am sorry to say your number's dont add up. As for me I am not part of the Panther fleet nor have I ever had any truck's with them. I just know there is two side's to each story.We havent heard there's.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
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While you are a contractor they rape you with stupid messaging fees on the QC.
The QC text messaging is $2.00/week and is optional. Hardly rape.
My advice is to stay away from these scam artists and they need to be taken to court.
If any of this is true then why don't you take them to court.

I actually made a lot of money in the future by getting out of this horrible business.
That should make your accountant's adding machine vapor lock.
 

Lawrence

Founder
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