Orlando Terrorist Attack: 50 Dead, 53 Injured

[Pilgrim]

This attack was at a gay night club, but next time it could be a football game, a concert or a busy shopping mall. These barbarians live among us and this will not be the last attack against American citizens on our soil. Yet Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Clinton want to open our borders to one and all. Probably doesn't matter at this point - the terrorists are already here.

Orlando Massacre Suspect Pledged Allegiance to ISIS

 

[Yowpuggy]

Have some class, leave the politics for later.

 

[Turtle]

Have some class, leave the politics for later.

Oh, it's way too late for that. It became political within minutes of the attack when Trump tweeted an 'I told you so,' Hillary labeled it both an attack of hate (gays) and of terror (but not Radical Islamic Terrorism) and added the non-committal 'redoubling our efforts to protect Americans at home and abroad' and threw in the old standby of us having to do something about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.

And then there's Bernie who, in the opinion of many, absolutely nailed the root cause of the attack when he said it was a lack of gun control that caused the attack, saying the certified security officer who carried out the attack would have been stopped in his tracks if we only had expanded instant background checks, done away with the gun show loophole, and addressed the straw man provision.

Meanwhile the LGBTQ community is madder'n a hornet that the media is entertaining some of its focus on his stated pledge to ISIS, radical Islamic Terrorism in the middle of Ramadan, and that he's a Muslim, rather than putting the entire focus on "Gay Nightclub Attacked During Gay Pride Month on Gay Latin Night by Anti Gay Right-Winger with an Assault Rifle."

 

[Ragman]

Why can't it just be what it is..... A mad man committing a heinous act!

 

[xiggi]

Maybe because it's a little more than just that, idk.

 

[Pilgrim]

Why can't it just be what it is..... A mad man committing a heinous act!

Well, the fact that he was Muslim and that pledge he made to ISIS made it different from a domestic terror attack like that of the Sandy Hook or Va Tech shooters. At this point one wonders if it will come out that he's traveled to one or more of the ISIS training grounds. To have killed and injured that many people he very likely had some training somewhere and also had someone providing him with equipment, so he's probably not a lone wolf lunatic.

 

[skyraider]

We, us, you , they, them....we all are powerless to stop shootings or terrorist acts in this nation...the beat goes on..It is a way of life in today's culture. Here are a few stats.
Mass Shootings

 

[Turtle]

Well, the fact that he was Muslim and that pledge he made to ISIS made it different from a domestic terror attack like that of the Sandy Hook or Va Tech shooters.

Possibly. It depends on how sincere his "pledge" was. If you notice, he made a "pledge" to ISIS. Nobody does that. All other terrorists who have made similar pledges have made pledges to an individual, a specific leader or other individual within ISIS or some other terrorist group, not to the group as a whole. Making a pledge to ISIS is kind of like buying and wearing a t-shirt that says "Go Sports!" In addition, his "pledge" came 20 minutes after the start of the attack when he called 911 and mentioned ISIS, as well as the Boston bombers.

Daniel Gilroy, a former police officer and security guard who worked with Mateen for several months said Mateen frequently made homophobic and racial comments. He didn't like gays, black or Latinos. Gilroy said he complained to his employer (G4S Security) several times but they did nothing because he was Muslim, despite Mateen not appearing to be particular devout to his religion. Gilroy quit after he said Mateen began stalking him via multiple text messages - 20 or 30 a day - and G4S wouldn't do anything about it. "Everything he said was toxic," Gilroy said, "and the company wouldn't do anything. This guy was unhinged and unstable. He talked of killing people."

At this point one wonders if it will come out that he's traveled to one or more of the ISIS training grounds.

Sound more like wishful thinking. There is far more evidence from the comments of people who knew him that he was much more committed to homophobia (and in being "mentally unhinged") than he was to Islam.

To have killed and injured that many people he very likely had some training somewhere and also had someone providing him with equipment, so he's probably not a lone wolf lunatic.

That's some Cracker Jack logic you got there to come to that conclusion. For one, he went and bought the firearms himself last week, legally, at a gun dealer. He already owned a small caliber handgun, according to his ex-wife, and he worked for a security firm, so he probably knew how to point a gun and pull a trigger already. As for the training required to kill and injure that many people out of hundreds in a confined space, I'm not so sure that a whole lot of training is required beyond that of most first-person shoot 'em up video games. It's something a determined 8 year old, or an excited chimpanzee, could accomplish in that environment with a semi-automatic rifle.

 

[Turtle]

It should also be noted...

In a separate incident, an Indiana man armed with three assault rifles and chemicals used to make explosives was arrested Sunday in Southern California and told police he was headed to a Los Angeles-area gay pride parade. What his exact intentions were are as yet unknown.

This is not the last of these types of incidents targeting gays. There have been lesser-reported ones already over the past couple of years, from the 2 white brothers and their cousin throwing chunks of concrete at gays as the exited a gay bar in Brownsville, TX to the incident on New Year's Even 2 years ago when Musab Masmari, a Muslim, tried to burn down a gay club with 750 inside pouring gasoline all over a stairwell and setting it ablaze. No guns involved in those, therefor not terrorism. I guess. There will almost certainly be more of them, as I alluded to here quite a while ago, and then reiterated here and here, as well as here with, "One immutable truth when it comes to people is, sustainable cultural change can come only though free will, not compulsion. The stronger the compulsion, the more ingrained the resistance. ... The "all things gay is wonderful" backlash's time is coming, too."

It's straight-up, foreseeable and utterly predicable... backlash. It's deplorable, but there's no escaping the dictates of history and human nature.

 

[Turtle]

I also want to point out that despite the media falling all over themselves to point out, ad nauseum, how the Orlando shooting, at a gay bar during Gay Pride Month, is the "worst mass shooting in US history," it's not. Not even close. The best and most honest you can be about it is to qualify it as "in modern US history" going back only about a century. During the War of 1812, and the Civil War, and in the latter part of the 1800s there are numerous accounts of hundreds at a time being executed, including entire towns and villages.

 

[Yowpuggy]

The worse mass shooting by a single gunman.

 

[skyraider]

ORLANDO MASSACRE GUNMAN CALLED 'UNHINGED AND UNSTABLE'
Ex-colleague says shooter spewed racist, misogynist hate — but wasn't fired because he was Muslim

• VIDEO: Former co-worker says Orlando gunman's anger was 'constant'
  
• ORLANDO MASSACRE: 49 shot dead, 53 wounded in gay nightclub; gunman called 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS
• RADICAL CONNECTION: Orlando gunman tied to radical imam, released from prison last year
• LIVE BLOG: Live updates from Florida nightclub shooting
• WHO IS OMAR MATEEN? Florida nightclub shooter apparently made threats in the past; ex-wife claims he beat her
• TIES TO TERROR? FBI: Suspect in nightclub rampage investigated twice for ties to Islamic extremism
• INTEL PANEL CHAIRMAN: Orlando attack has signature of plot directed by terror group
• PLOT FOILED? Man with weapons arrested in California ahead of Gay Pride parade, cops say
• PUTTING UP A FIGHT: Eleven officers involved in gunfight that killed Orlando shooter hours after siege began
• SLIDESHOW: Aftermath of shooting at Orlando nightclub | VIDEO: Survivor — Shooter wanted to kill us all
  
• VIDEOS: Club-goer describes 'domino effect' of shooting
  
  | Shooter bought 2 guns within past week, ATF says
  

 

[skyraider]

After reading all this stuff, this incident makes that wedding cake incident rather silly.........

 

[Turtle]

I think it's going to be difficult to drill down to the bedrock of this incident, because we're already seeing highly biased, deliberately slanted, reporting even in the mainstream media. The crafted narrative depends upon your agenda rather than the facts.

NPR had to walk back "the worst mass shooting in US history!" when readers and listeners kept calling them on it, many pointing out Wounded Knee and other brutal massacres. NPR eventually called the guy who literally wrote the book on the history of mass shootings in the US and he said their phrasing was "sensationalistically serviceable, but disingenuous." He noted that mass killings before 1900 tended to be mob-oriented hate based, while after 1900 they tended to be individual-oriented hate based. Said at the very least they should include a time frame, such as "in modern history" or some other valid qualifier.

ABC News, on the other hand, spent 3 days meticulously deleting all Wounded Knee and similar references that didn't promote the "worst in US history" narrative from the comments section of their story on the matter.

Some see this as both an act of terrorism and of hate, partly because pretty much anything these days is classified as generic terrorism, and because gays were involved. Some see it as pure Islamic terrorism. Period. Some see it as 100% pure homophobia. Period.

The FBI (fighting terrorism is our business, but boy do we suck at it) characterizes the shooter, his wife and kid visiting Disney World as "scouting locations" and characterizes 2-3 visits per month over the past 2 years to the same gay nightclub as the same "scouting" of locations.

I think his nonsensical pledge to ISIS, along with other groups who are enemies of ISIS, was a lame attempt to use terrorism as just a justification. He was a not-particularly religious Muslim American who was filled with self loathing over being gay, who suffered narcissistic injuries, who lashed out not because he was filled with religious fervor, but because he was a terrible person, insane, and looking to destroy that which tormented him. In my opinion, Islamic extremist terror is a red herring cloak in all this.

 

[Turtle]

'Worst Mass Shooting in US History, Carried Out in a Gay Nightclub, During Gay Pride Month, by a Gay Man."

There's a headline we'll never see in the news media.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I think it's going to be difficult to drill down to the bedrock of this incident, because we're already seeing highly biased, deliberately slanted, reporting even in the mainstream media. The crafted narrative depends upon your agenda rather than the facts.

NPR had to walk back "the worst mass shooting in US history!" when readers and listeners kept calling them on it, many pointing out Wounded Knee and other brutal massacres. NPR eventually called the guy who literally wrote the book on the history of mass shootings in the US and he said their phrasing was "sensationalistically serviceable, but disingenuous." He noted that mass killings before 1900 tended to be mob-oriented hate based, while after 1900 they tended to be individual-oriented hate based. Said at the very least they should include a time frame, such as "in modern history" or some other valid qualifier.

ABC News, on the other hand, spent 3 days meticulously deleting all Wounded Knee and similar references that didn't promote the "worst in US history" narrative from the comments section of their story on the matter.

Some see this as both an act of terrorism and of hate, partly because pretty much anything these days is classified as generic terrorism, and because gays were involved. Some see it as pure Islamic terrorism. Period. Some see it as 100% pure homophobia. Period.

The FBI (fighting terrorism is our business, but boy do we suck at it) characterizes the shooter, his wife and kid visiting Disney World as "scouting locations" and characterizes 2-3 visits per month over the past 2 years to the same gay nightclub as the same "scouting" of locations.

I think his nonsensical pledge to ISIS, along with other groups who are enemies of ISIS, was a lame attempt to use terrorism as just a justification. He was a not-particularly religious Muslim American who was filled with self loathing over being gay, who suffered narcissistic injuries, who lashed out not because he was filled with religious fervor, but because he was a terrible person, insane, and looking to destroy that which tormented him. In my opinion, Islamic extremist terror is a red herring cloak in all this.

I agree with you on this.....I said to JuJu when this broke....watch what the media and politicians do with this and the spin that comes off it...and they ate it up like suckers at the carnival.....This guy was all over the charts on his behavior...

 

[skyraider]

 

[Turtle]

Looks like the media has bought it. And the feds, of course, since they really want this to be Islamic-related terrorism, anyway. It's a masterful, albeit deranged, sleight of hand misdirection. "Concentrate on this, not that."

The shooter rarely went to mosque, according to his imam. He regularly drank alcohol, which is strictly forbidden in Islam. He was heavily involved in learning about terrorist groups and jihad for all of about 2 weeks. On the other hand, he was was very active in the gay "scene" and on gay dating apps since at least 2007. He was a regular at Pulse and at other gay bars and night clubs.

I gotta give Anderson Cooper credit, though. He nailed it early on. "No one cases a joint 2-3 times a month for 3 years. You do that to hook up."

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Looks like the media has bought it. And the feds, of course, since they really want this to be Islamic-related terrorism, anyway. It's a masterful, albeit deranged, sleight of hand misdirection. "Concentrate on this, not that."

The shooter rarely went to mosque, according to his imam. He regularly drank alcohol, which is strictly forbidden in Islam. He was heavily involved in learning about terrorist groups and jihad for all of about 2 weeks. On the other hand, he was was very active in the gay "scene" and on gay dating apps since at least 2007. He was a regular at Pulse and at other gay bars and night clubs.

I gotta give Anderson Cooper credit, though. He nailed it early on. "No one cases a joint 2-3 times a month for 3 years. You do that to hook up."

you thinking just a nut case and or jilted lover or both?....every involved party seems to want to hang their hats/cause on this massacre...

Law enforcement has to justify their existence IE: spending

Gays....gay rights issue...

politicians.....gun issue.....

 

[Turtle]

you thinking just a nut case and or jilted lover or both?...

I think a nutcase for sure. That's probably the foundation. But I think he led a double life, trying to appear to his family and Muslim friends as a Muslim, at least a moderate one, while at the same time was very, very gay but having to hide it, desperately wanting to come out but was deeply conflicted because of his religion and his domineering very Muslim father who would not tolerate alcohol or gay from his son. How first wife suspected he was gay.

He took his current wife to the nightclub, either to gauge her reactions to a building full of gays, or maybe even self-destructively hoping she'd discover he was gay. Taking his wife to the same gay club he's been regularly visiting for 3 years is certainly a bold move, and absolutely means something.

If her reaction was righteous condemnation, it meant she would view him the same way. And if he was at a point where he HAD to come out, but she didn't approve, and thus was unlikely to keep her mouth shut to his father about it, that sent him over the edge.

On a side note, I'm thoroughly shocked, shocked I tell you, that this shooting took place in a Gun-Free Zone, because, you know, guns aren't allowed in there.