More bad news.

Jamin_Joe

Seasoned Expediter
Just got done taking to Ms. Papp head of the vision exemption program and basically I'm screwed. Though my Visual testing says I exceed the min. requirements with out 3 years driving a commercial vehicle, 10k lbs plus, I cant get the medical card. Spoke to a safety officer at Nations Express who explained that the Insurance campanies made the mandate for all drivers to possess the medical card.

Very disappointing.

I may have to get a job delivering stuff to get the 3 years experrience needed to qualify for med. exemption. Finding freight for my van has been a real challenge and it looks like being a driver may not work out.

I feel like getting "FAILURE" tatooed to my forehead. Enough of the pitty party, and find a solution.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You will come out of this, far ahead, of where you thought you may end up. Just kick some butt, you will be fine. The harder the challenge the greater the reward. I am looking forward to hearing how you find a better way.
 

Jamin_Joe

Seasoned Expediter
The following letter is going out to all Senators and Representitives for my area and all Disability advocates in the USA that I can find.

Today I Spoke with Ms. Papp the Program Director of the Medical Excemption Programs and though I had an extensive testing done by an eye specialist the Vision Waiver can not be granted due to not having three years experience driving a commercial vehicle. In my case, my vehicle falls under the weight to classify it as a Commercial vehicle but companies as UPS require the medical card to haul freight for them as an Independent Owner Operator.
I do understand that safety is a priority, but with my driving record and the smaller sized vehicle that I will operate is well with in my abilities.

1. I feel this is Discriminatory against those with disabilities that can safely operate a vehicle as defined by their Medical Doctor.

2. I feel that out of concern for safety concerns the FMCSA has made unreasonable policies based on classifying all drivers as operating Heavy Haul vehicles.

3. Their decision has had major impacts on many drivers with many minor medical issues. You can verify this by contacting OOIDA a Freight Haulers Advocate Organization, phone number 800-444-5791.

Is there any way that this can be brought to the attention of the powers that be to perhaps amend the FMCSA Rules to take into consideration that vehicles that can be safely operated by the general public shouldn't be restricted for commercial use when the driver is Medically safe to do so.

Thank you.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm confused. You talk of FMCSA rules, while at the same time note that the vehicle you drive isn't subject to those rules. And you want Congress to change these rules... that don't apply to you?
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
They do apply to him at many carriers.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm thinking these are actually carrier's policies and not federal or state rules or laws.
Exactly. Those are carrier rules, not FMCSA rules. FMCSA rules only apply to Commercial Motor Vehicles, the definition of which is easy enough to find at the FMCSA Web site.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I'm thinking these are actually carrier's policies and not federal or state rules or laws.

Yep: the insurance carrier. They get to write the rules, and we get to follow them, whether they make any sense or not.
Helmets and seat belts are proof that it doesn't have to make a bean's worth of difference in preventing an accident to become federal law. The insurance lobby has serious juice.
 

Jamin_Joe

Seasoned Expediter
True, they are corporate rules, BUT, I am severly limited in my operations due to the weight restrictions. Newer Vans have higher gvwr ratings that exceed 10k lbs and the point is that I can not take advantage of being able to drive a larger truck, like a 12' Uhaul in size if someone needs a driver.

Medically I am ok to safely operate a CMV, but can not get the medical card due to not having 3 yrs experience driving smaller trucks commervially, though I have driven Uhauls and can safely handle a midsized truck. Fmcsa groups all vehicle drivers over 10k lbs with the heavy haul trucks. This is one area they are in error and the 3 year experience requirement.

Are people supposed to operate a cmv vehicle illegally until they have 3 years experience? Now, I can drive a 12' Uhaul empty for personal use only for 3 years to legally get my 3years experience. That would be insane!

Of course, there are other ways to get the 3 years experience which I'm looking into. In fact to prove a point, I may get a part time job as a yard jocky moving semi's around the yard, including doubles. Since it is on company property, no cdl or med. card is needed and technically I will be driving s class A vehicle with double &air brakes.



I fully understand and agree that some drivers should be kept from driving due to medicsl conditions commercial or private. We had to take Dad's keys when it was unsafe for him to drive due to his medical problems, especially when he side swipped a parked car.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Fmcsa groups all vehicle drivers over 10k lbs with the heavy haul trucks. This is one area they are in error and the 3 year experience requirement.
You've got it backwards. The FMCSA groups heavy haul trucks in with all vehicles over 10,000 pounds, because all vehicles over 10,000 pounds are considered a heavy vehicle. Heavy is heavy, and anything above 10,000 pounds is heavy.

Are people supposed to operate a cmv vehicle illegally until they have 3 years experience?
Yeah, that's exactly what the FMCSA wants people to do, operate a CMV illegally for the first 3 years. <snort>

Now, I can drive a 12' Uhaul empty for personal use only for 3 years to legally get my 3years experience. That would be insane!
Yes, it would be insane. But not as insane as giving someone who is inexperienced a medical waiver. Experienced drivers can get a medical waiver because they already understand the rigors of the job and how their medical condition affects that. They're not going to give a waiver to someone who is inexperienced, and then say, "OK, NOW go and learn how to drive commercially. Oh, and by the way, be careful out there!"

In fact to prove a point, I may get a part time job as a yard jocky moving semi's around the yard, including doubles. Since it is on company property, no cdl or med. card is needed...
For the same reason you can't get on with a carrier in a cargo van and no DOT physical, you aren't likely to find many yard dog jobs that don't require a CDL, or at least a physical, especially if you move a trailer that is placarded. One of the most critical aspects of a yard dog is good eyesight. The next is good hearing. There have simply been too many people killed or injured in trailer yards for any insurance company to take an unnecessary liability risk on someone who has diminished peripheral vision or reduced eyesight.
 

Jamin_Joe

Seasoned Expediter
We arectalking about the gross vehicle rating including cargo. My van weighs slightly over 7k lbs empty and can safely be loaded upto 10k lbs.

The issue is that WITH proper medical clearence through a complete medical examinination by a qualified doctor, a driver shouldnt be restricted from driving a vehicle they can drive for personal use commercially.

As for the yard jocky, they only move trailers to/from the loading dock to staging area in the same parking lot. They also must do a preinspection, so when the driver does theirs, the vehicle will have all defects fixed beforehand. They still must get the CDL to drive on the street.

So, do you really think I should be excluded from driving a 16' box truck, smaller uhaul truck, commercially when; I have been 2 different eye doctors and went through several specialized tests that show I surpass visual requirements and have a perfect driving record?

The blind spot in my left eye is in the center, which is compensated by my right eyes visual field. Peripherally, my left eye is fine and I can even see a telephone pole 4 lanes and a median out of the corner of my bad eye. Try yours and see how well you see when looking forward and how well you see out of the corner of your eye.

See, the problem is grouping people together, there are varying degrees of medical problems.

Now I agree if someone is unable to drive safely due to a medical condition, then they should be kept off the road, BUT if they are able , AS DETERMINED by proper medical procedures by a QUALIFIED Doctor, then they shouldnt be discriminated against due to the opionion of a nonmedically trained person.

In my construction experience I have driven a stake truck on several occasions to deliver materials to job sites, drove 16' uhauls many times, pulled trailers behind my truck, learned to drive in a Ford Falcon van, which I eventually bought from my Dad. My work truck during
my contruction days may have exceeded the 10k lbs rating, but I am not sure.

According to the Americans With Disabilities act, Resonable Accomidation forbids discrimination if a person is capible of doing their job, and in this case being medically capible to drive a cmv safely.

I will do all that I can to stand up for my rights, this isnt the first time. Face it Im a Gatzek and we are stubborn and wont have people tell us we cant do things we can and we have a low tolorence with bull butter.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
We arectalking about the gross vehicle rating including cargo. My van weighs slightly over 7k lbs empty and can safely be loaded upto 10k lbs.
Yes, as long as the GVRW on the door sticker doesn't exceed 10,000 pounds, you aren't subject to the regulations of a CMV.

The issue is that WITH proper medical clearence through a complete medical examinination by a qualified doctor, a driver shouldnt be restricted from driving a vehicle they can drive for personal use commercially.
That's not an issue. A driver with proper medical clearance, meaning they meet the standards to physically perform the job, can drive whatever vehicle they like in interstate and intrastate commerce.

As for the yard jocky, they only move trailers to/from the loading dock to staging area in the same parking lot. They also must do a preinspection, so when the driver does theirs, the vehicle will have all defects fixed beforehand. They still must get the CDL to drive on the street.
Yes, I know what a yard jockey is. I also know that, while they are not required by the FMCSA to have a CDL, most carriers nevertheless require it. A very few don't, but most do.

So, do you really think I should be excluded from driving a 16' box truck, smaller uhaul truck, commercially when; I have been 2 different eye doctors and went through several specialized tests that show I surpass visual requirements and have a perfect driving record?
If you surpass the visual requirements, yes of course you should be able to drive. Both your left and right eye must have independent distant visual acuity of 20/40, whether they are uncorrected or independently corrected. Both eyes together must also have the same 20/40 distant visual acuity. Each eye must have at least a 70 degree field of vision in the horizontal median of peripheral vision. If either of your eyes cannot be corrected to at elast 20/40, or you don't have at least 70 degrees peripherally, then you don't surpass the vision requirements.

The blind spot in my left eye is in the center, which is compensated by my right eyes visual field. Peripherally, my left eye is fine and I can even see a telephone pole 4 lanes and a median out of the corner of my bad eye. Try yours and see how well you see when looking forward and how well you see out of the corner of your eye.
Mine is 90 degrees in each eye.

See, the problem is grouping people together, there are varying degrees of medical problems.
But the minimum requirements don't vary.

Now I agree if someone is unable to drive safely due to a medical condition, then they should be kept off the road, BUT if they are able , AS DETERMINED by proper medical procedures by a QUALIFIED Doctor, then they shouldnt be discriminated against due to the opionion of a nonmedically trained person.
Who is this nonmedically trained person of which you speak? The current physical standards to operate a CMV were arrived at by an army of medical professionals and were implimented into law by the rulemaking process which included hard data of tests and crash statistics to back it up.

According to the Americans With Disabilities act, Resonable Accomidation forbids discrimination if a person is capible of doing their job, and in this case being medically capible to drive a cmv safely.
Well, not exactly. You used the word "capable" (capible), but the ADA uses "qualified." The ADA "prohibits discrimination against any qualified individual on the basis of disability in regard to job application procedures, the hiring, advancement, or discharge of employees, employee compensation, job training, and other terms, conditions, and privileges of employment." But there's the rub - "any qualified individual." If you aren't medically qualified enough to meet the medical standards and cannot obtain a DOT medical card, then you aren't qualified to do the job.

A recent example of an ADA case that's not at all unlike yours is the Wilkie v. The Golub Corp case of September, 2013 where Mr. Wilkie went to get his DOT physical and his blood sugar was too high, disqualifying him for the medical certificate. He sued on ADA grounds that he was discriminated against because of his diabetes. The court dismissed the case because, as the court noted in its opinion, "The undisputed evidence shows that Wilkie was denied DOT certification to drive a commercial motor vehicle in interstate commerce when Dr. Silverman determined that Wilkie did not pass the physical exam. Without such certification, and with no evidence to the contrary, Wilkie has failed to establish that he is qualified for the job, and therefore is unable to maintain a discrimination claim under the ADA."

So, in Wilkie's case, having diabetes prevents him from being discriminated against because he has diabetes, but it doesn't allow him to be medically qualified for the job simply because diabetes is a disability. If you have diabetes but it's controlled with medication, and you can obtain a medical card, then you cannot be discriminated against because you have diabetes. It's the same thing with vision, hearing and other medical conditions.

So, if you meet the physical requirement, then you are medically qualified to drive a CMV. If you don't meet the medical criteria, then you are medically disqualified. There are lots of drivers with disabilities, but none of those disabilities are disqualiying. Those with disqualifying disabilities aren't drivers. The US Constituion prohibits being stopped by the police without probable cause, and against unreasonable searches and seizures, yet the Supreme Court has ruled many times that these basic rights are superceded by the interest in the public's safety when it involves the rights of people who operate in safety related functions. That's why the DOT can stop a CMV with no reason whatsoever and harass, er, ah, I mean question the driver and inspect the vehicle. It's why they can require people who drive planes, trains and trucks and busses to pee in a cup.

I will do all that I can to stand up for my rights, this isnt the first time. Face it Im a Gatzek and we are stubborn and wont have people tell us we cant do things we can and we have a low tolorence with bull butter.
Don't let your stubborness prevent you from becoming educated on the facts, and the law.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Nothing like kicking a guy when he's down geez. The guy wants to work and he's is frustrated, if he wants to vent to the feds go for it sure not going to hurt anything.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123
 

Jamin_Joe

Seasoned Expediter
start my new courier position on Monday and will get my 3 years experience driving a cmv by volunteer work for community service organizations that rent Uhauls, since I am a volunteer and they rented the truck making me like an employee, also I will help my Father In law when needed transporting fish on his trout farm, as long as I am with in the 100 Mile radius.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Nothing like kicking a guy when he's down geez. The guy wants to work and he's is frustrated, if he wants to vent to the feds go for it sure not going to hurt anything.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

Nothing like taking a cheap shot at me from the peanut gallery. Characterizing giving someone honest information which they can work with as "kicking a guy when he's down" is a completely unfair characterization, and you know it. The guy deserves honest and accurate information, so he doesn't waste his time venting to the feds or on options that don't exist , and your sole contribution to that end was to give him incorrect information. Nice.
I'm happy that he's started the courier job, and now he better knows his options after getting his experience under his belt.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Wasn't anything cheap about just my personal asesment. Now telling someone they are coming in from the peunut gallery, those are cheap even boiled.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Wasn't anything cheap about just my personal asesment. Now telling someone they are coming in from the peunut gallery, those are cheap even boiled.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

Well, the opposite of cheap shot is praise, approval, commendation or complement. It certainly wasn't any of those. When you sit on the sidelines and toss into the conversation comments that are the opposite of the four terms above, the peanut gallery is the correct euphemism for botherers, hecklers, interrupters in the cheap seats who do that. Boiled or roasted makes no difference. Contribute something constructive and accurate to the conversation and your seats are automatically upgraded.
 
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