Imagine this ... I never thought I would see ...

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
..... someone that writes for these guys claiming and owning the moral high ground:

"In my recent article Ward Churchill: The Lie Lives On, I discussed the following realities about America's legal "system": it is duplicitous and corrupt; it will go to any extremes to insulate from prosecution, and in many cases civil liability, persons whose crimes facilitate this duplicity and corruption; it has abdicated its responsibility to serve as a "check-and-balance" against the other two branches of government, and has instead been transformed into a weapon exploited by the wealthy, the corporations, and the politically connected to defend their criminality, conceal their corruption and promote their economic interests; and, finally, that the oft-quoted adage "Nobody is above the law" is a lie.

Some critics were quick to dismiss my article as politically motivated hyperbole. But with the recent revelations disclosed by Wikileaks, it appears that this article did not even scratch the surface, because it is now evident that Barack Obama, who entered the White House with optimistic messages of change and hope, is just as complicit in, and manipulative of, the legal "system's" duplicity and corruption as was his predecessor George W. Bush."

Gee .... why am I not surprised ..... :rolleyes:

For example, as I stated in the aforementioned article, the Obama administration has refused to prosecute former Attorney General John Ashcroft for abusing the "material witness" statute; refused to prosecute Ashcroft's successor (and suspected perjurer) Alberto Gonzales for his role in the politically motivated firing of nine federal prosecutors; refused to prosecute Justice Department authors of the now infamous "torture memos," like John Yoo and Jay Bybee; and, more recently, refused to prosecute former CIA official Jose Rodriquez Jr. for destroying tapes that purportedly showed CIA agents torturing detainees.

Predictably, the official mantra supporting these refusals is that "exhaustive" investigations had been conducted. But now, thanks to Wikileaks, the world has been enlightened to the fact that the Obama administration not only refused to prosecute these individuals itself, it also exerted pressure on the governments of Germany and Spain not to prosecute, or even indict, any of the torturers or war criminals from the Bush dictatorship.

This revelation invariably leads to three inescapable conclusions: these so-called "exhaustive investigations" were a sham; the Obama administration never intended to prosecute such crimes and, in fact, went to inordinate lengths to cover them up; and the American government has the proven capacity to influence the legal systems of other countries.

And now, given the fact that Wikileaks founder Julian Assange is facing criminal charges in Sweden, it is also evident that America even has the Swedish government and Interpol in its hip pocket.

Of course, I do not know if Assange committed the crime he is accused of. I do know that to the American legal "system" the truth is irrelevant. The minute Assange revealed the extent of America's criminality and cover-ups to the world, he became a marked man. And America is going to do anything it can to silence him."

"And we see many right-wing commentators demanding that Assange be hunted down, with some even calling for his murder, on the grounds that he may have endangered lives by releasing confidential government documents.

Yet, for the right-wing, this apparently was not a concern when the late columnist Robert Novak "outed" CIA agent Valerie Plame after her husband Joseph Wilson authored an OP-ED piece in The New York Times criticizing the motivations for waging war against Iraq. Even though there was evidence of involvement within the highest echelons of the Bush dictatorship, only one person, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was indicted and convicted of "outing" Plame to Novak. And, despite the fact that this "outing" potentially endangered the lives of Plame's overseas contacts, Bush commuted Libby's thirty-month prison sentence, calling it "excessive."

Why the disparity? The answer is simple: The Plame "outing" served the interests of the military-industrial complex and helped to conceal the Bush dictatorship's lies, tortures and war crimes, while Wikileaks not only exposed such evils, but also revealed how Obama's administration, and Obama himself, are little more than "snake oil" merchants pontificating about government accountability while undermining it at every turn ......

..... The ironic thing about these so-called "espionage" acts is that they actually invert the concepts of crime and punishment. Most criminals break laws that others have created, and people who assist in exposing or apprehending them are usually lauded as heroes. But with the "espionage" acts, the criminals themselves have actually created laws to conceal their crimes, and exploit these laws to penalize people who expose them.

Very extensive piece, with some very good analysis ..... go to the link below to read the rest of it:

Valerie Plame, YES! Wikileaks, NO!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Oh yes ... Ward "I'm belong to the Cherokee India" Churchill.

That's a great thing qouting an idiot who as an Ethics professor was found to falsify, fabricate and plagiarize his researchhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill#cite_note-misconduct_report-1 to the point of Research Misconduct charges were made, he was found guilty and fired. He shows the problem with Tenure because he was screaming censorship, sued the university and lost on appeal.

I think he has as much credibility to say anything about wikileaks and the related material as a Brooklyn plumber has about Stephen Hawking's theory on Black Holes.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Dude,

You might try actually reading the article ...... before allowing your own ideology to cloud your ability to even LOOK and in so doing, actually SEE ..... and getting all frothy to the point of blowing out a vein or something ....

The article is not by Ward Churchill (that is however the partial title of an article, written by ---->) .... it's by David R. Hoffman

Your response above on the aforementioned basis would constitute/= EPIC FAIL ....

And calls into question your cred, in term of your own ability to OBSERVE ....
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"At the center of every black hole is a little man with a flashlight searching for a circuit breaker." - Dr. Sheldon Cooper
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Oh yes ... Ward "I'm belong to the Cherokee India" Churchill.

That's a great thing qouting an idiot who as an Ethics professor was found to falsify, fabricate and plagiarize his research to the point of Research Misconduct charges were made, he was found guilty and fired. He shows the problem with Tenure because he was screaming censorship, sued the university and lost on appeal.

I think he has as much credibility to say anything about wikileaks and the related material as a Brooklyn plumber has about Stephen Hawking's theory on Black Holes.

Indeed, if you read the article you'll notice at the end that it's author was...
David R. Hoffman
Legal Editor of Pravda.Ru
Of course the content is exactly what one would expect from this organ of the Russian government, along with the false claims and arguments that are routinely portrayed to the proletariat as truth. Interesting reading for those who enjoy fiction, but surely nobody outside of Mother Russia takes this guy seriously. Anyone that has been exposed to the most basic newscast over the past few years knows that Scooter Libby wasn't convicted for "outing Valerie Plame".
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I know you think I didn't read it but I did and you are assuming something that is not actually true.

His name popped up and like most of news about this mess, it is a tangent about Churchill and not the author or the article. This has happened a bit too much in the last few days as there is a clear distinct division on what this means to the country, some think it is a great thing to happen while others think it puts us in more of a position to be attacked and our soldiers pay a price for it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Some also actually think this will make the US government be more open and transparent. It won't. It'll make them even more guarded with their secrets. It's already started happening. Before too long, everything the government touches or produces will be classified, including the parking passes and the validation thereof. You think the government has been secretive up to now, you ain't seen nothing yet.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You are so right. This is a hit on all of us, that is why it is important to stop the crap and then punish those who did it.

Once they justify removing data, scrubbing it, we as a people will live more or less like the UK in the 30s, 40s and 50s - secrets with no access ever. I have a feeling one of the things that will take a hit is the FIA.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Of course the content is exactly what one would expect from this organ of the Russian government, along with the false claims and arguments that are routinely portrayed to the proletariat as truth.
Well, yes ... we all know that our official government organs never do anything but tell the truth ..... :rolleyes:

Interesting reading for those who enjoy fiction, but surely nobody outside of Mother Russia takes this guy seriously.
Well actually, not so surely ..... actual events would seem to indicate otherwise, particularly where journalists are concerned (as well as the average individual .... at least the ones paying attention)

There seems to be quite a groundswell of growing support for Assange and Wikileaks from within the journalistic community within the last several days ..... which shouldn't come as any big surprise ....

But then one would know that only if they looked at someplace where this info was being aggregated ..... rather than just reading stuff that they happen to agree with in the rightwing (or leftwing, depending on your preference) statist-blogsphere .....

Anyone that has been exposed to the most basic newscast over the past few years knows that Scooter Libby wasn't convicted for "outing Valerie Plame".
Technically accurate, as far as semantics go ....

But from the purely functional aspect of justice, he was (convicted for his conduct relating to the matter of "outing Valerie Plame") - since his criminal conduct was intimately connected to that matter.

BTW, great job on the "guilt-by-association" thing - it's really the only way to go when you can't address and debate the actual substance of what the article said, and the issues that it raised .... despite the fact, that doing so is utterly fallacious.

On that note, I'm gonna go with either the:

Red Herring:

"Similar in category, but with darker implications .... a "red herring" is an answer, given in reply to a questioner, that goes beyond an innocent logical irrelevance. A red herring is a deliberate attempt to divert a process of enquiry by changing the subject."

Example (mine): Subject is the content of the article. Pilgrim's solution = divert discussion to author's associates, thereby avoiding talking about the actual content.

Or we could go with:

Guilt by association as an ad hominem

"Guilt by association can sometimes also be a type of ad hominem fallacy, if the argument attacks a person because of the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument."

Very good - either way, you win a cookie.

Say .... wait a minute .... aren't you supposed to have me on "Ignore" ? :eek:
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Some also actually think this will make the US government be more open and transparent. It won't.
Not necessarily a foregone conclusion (unless one is just thoroughly stuck in a totally apathetic frame of mind) ..... for it depends totally on who we elect and grant power to ..... and the degree of power that we grant them ....

It'll make them even more guarded with their secrets. It's already started happening.
It's been going on for years .... decades even ....

Before too long, everything the government touches or produces will be classified, including the parking passes and the validation thereof. You think the government has been secretive up to now, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Precisely .... I think you may be starting to get the picture ... ;)
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Oh, I've long ago gotten the picture. Even been a part of it. It's just that I don't have a Woodie for Wiki. I can see things for what they are, both sides, both good and bad. And both sides have their good and bad.
 
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