I'm really looking forward to this one!

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
They don't have enough real work to do to occupy all their time, including the time they waste on all sorts of proclamations and other things just to hear themselves babble and get more pages in the Register?
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Addicting Info ? Pope Francis Says He Wants To Address Joint Session Of Congress, Republicans Should Be Terrified


It's gonna be real, lol.
If anyone had told me a couple years ago that I would truly admire a Catholic Pope, I wouldn't have believed it - but I truly admire this one.

I agree Cheri. I like the ideas that he has brought up that evolution and the Bible can go hand in hand. It has been a belief that I have held for awhile and it's interesting to see someone at his level bring it up.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Ssshhh...liberals want conservatives to publicly criticize and get in a fight with him. Lol
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Ssshhh...liberals want conservatives to publicly criticize and get in a fight with him. Lol

Again, you totally missed the point. No one want conservatives [or anyone] to "publicly criticize and get in a fight with him". It would be redundant, because most of the conservative track record [except for matters of contraception & abortion] is directly opposed to the values this Pope is reminding them to honor.
It doesn't matter what they say now, they've been fighting against what this Pope stands for for a long time, and it will be sweet to see someone they really can't afford to disrespect tell them so.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Hope it's entertaining to you Missy. Just like the SOTU entertaining, but, unfortunate.

I thought it was very entertaining, particularly when the POTUS said he had no more campaigns to run, and the Republicans applauded, because there is nothing more important to them than spiting him, no matter what he says or does.
When Obama replied "I know, because I won both of them" it was a slap in the face they well deserved.
They deserve whatever the Pope wants to say to them, too.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Again, you totally missed the point. No one want conservatives [or anyone] to "publicly criticize and get in a fight with him". It would be redundant, because most of the conservative track record [except for matters of contraception & abortion] is directly opposed to the values this Pope is reminding them to honor.
It doesn't matter what they say now, they've been fighting against what this Pope stands for for a long time, and it will be sweet to see someone they really can't afford to disrespect tell them so.
No, you missed the point. Liberals would like nothing more than to see conservatives calling out the Pope publicly so they can use it for political purposes. Not knowing that is just ignorant on your part. BTW many conservatives agree with him about being charitable. It's a conservative track record.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The Pope merely visiting SCOTUS or POTUS or Congress is one thing. It's fine. But for Speaker of the House John Boehner, a Catholic, to invite the Catholic Pope to appear and address a specially convened Joint Meeting of Congress for that purpose, and then for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, also a Catholic, to join in that invitation, is a bald-faced promotion of a particular religion.

The Pope is the spiritual leader for more members of Congress than anyone else. In the 60s and 70s Congress was 20 percent Catholic. Now it's 30 percent. Three of every eight freshmen and four of the nine top leaders: Boehner, Pelosi, House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, and Senate Minority Whip Richard J. Durbin are Catholic.

To purposefully convene Congress in a Joint Meeting for the explicit purpose of receiving the Pope is literally the convening of our nation's leaders to be addressed by their plurality religion leader. It flies in the face of the Constitutional prohibition of that same Congress from establishing a religion.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
The Pope merely visiting SCOTUS or POTUS or Congress is one thing. It's fine. But for Speaker of the House John Boehner, a Catholic, to invite the Catholic Pope to appear and address a specially convened Joint Meeting of Congress for that purpose, and then for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, also a Catholic, to join in that invitation, is a bald-faced promotion of a particular religion.

The Pope is the spiritual leader for more members of Congress than anyone else. In the 60s and 70s Congress was 20 percent Catholic. Now it's 30 percent. Three of every eight freshmen and four of the nine top leaders: Boehner, Pelosi, House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, and Senate Minority Whip Richard J. Durbin are Catholic.

To purposefully convene Congress in a Joint Meeting for the explicit purpose of receiving the Pope is literally the convening of our nation's leaders to be addressed by their plurality religion leader. It flies in the face of the Constitutional prohibition of that same Congress from establishing a religion.

You'll enjoy this clip then. Actually I encourage all to watch, it kind of kills two birds with one stone.

The Zone Rangers - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The Pope merely visiting SCOTUS or POTUS or Congress is one thing. It's fine. But for Speaker of the House John Boehner, a Catholic, to invite the Catholic Pope to appear and address a specially convened Joint Meeting of Congress for that purpose, and then for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, also a Catholic, to join in that invitation, is a bald-faced promotion of a particular religion.

The Pope is the spiritual leader for more members of Congress than anyone else. In the 60s and 70s Congress was 20 percent Catholic. Now it's 30 percent. Three of every eight freshmen and four of the nine top leaders: Boehner, Pelosi, House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, and Senate Minority Whip Richard J. Durbin are Catholic.

To purposefully convene Congress in a Joint Meeting for the explicit purpose of receiving the Pope is literally the convening of our nation's leaders to be addressed by their plurality religion leader. It flies in the face of the Constitutional prohibition of that same Congress from establishing a religion.
Keep in mind the Pope is the head of a nation state - Vatican City - that has been invited to speak before Congress.:rolleyes:
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Keep in mind the Pope is the head of a nation state - Vatican City - that has been invited to speak before Congress.:rolleyes:
I wondered how long it might be before someone brought that up. :rolleyes:

Yes, Vatican City is a nation state (technically a city state), the smallest in the world, where the US has almost zero national security or economic interests. But even at that, the Pope wasn't invited as the head of the nation state of Vatican City, but rather as the head of state of the Holy See, which is a different thing altogether. One difference, for example, is Vatican City is strictly neutral on political issues, whereas the Holy See is not.

They are somewhat analogous with each other, and often incorrectly used interchangeably, but Vatican City is a sovereign nation state and the Holy See is a sovereign episcopal see of the Pope. "See" is from Latin sedes, which means "chair" and denotes the Bishop's ecclesiastical jurisdiction within the Church. In the case of the Holy See, it's the Pope's supreme ecclesiastical jurisdiction of the Catholic Church in Rome, or, as the State Department puts it, "the universal government of the Catholic Church."

"It is my honor as Speaker, and on behalf of the bipartisan leadership of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate, to extend to you as head of state of the Holy See an open invitation to appear before and address a Joint Meeting of the two houses of Congress," Boehner wrote in the letter.

So Boehner (and Pelosi), as a catholic who likely knows the difference, didn't invite the head of a nation state, he invited the head of a particular religion.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
So Boehner (and Pelosi), as a catholic who likely knows the difference, didn't invite the head of a nation state, he invited the head of a particular religion.
If this is the case, where is the "support the constitution" crowd on this issue.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
If this is the case, where is the "support the constitution" crowd on this issue.
Like the ACLU? <snort>

If the Pope does visit, it will be unprecedented. No Pope or religious leader who also serves as a head of state has ever formally and officially addressed Congress.

I don't have a a problem with the Pope visiting the people of Congress, or the people of any other government branch. A significant percentage of the citizens within government are themselves religious, and it is unreasonable to have them leave their beliefs, or their expressions of those beliefs, at the door. I'm not one of those who thinks any and all evidence of religion needs to be removed from any and all aspects of government. We have a House Chaplain that is, like the Pope, a Jesuit. If members of Congress want to attend church service inside the Capitol, I don't care. I don't even know if they have church services at the Capitol anymore, but they used to all the time. That's an activity for individuals, not an activity for the Congressional body at large. It's not a problem any more than saying a prayer in school is a problem.

But I think it's a serious problem when the Pope is invited as the head of state of the Holy See, because he's being invited as a religious leader. In extending the invitation to the Pope back in March, Boehner said the Pope’s address “as a visiting head of state before a joint meeting of the House and Senate would honor our nation in keeping with the best traditions of our democratic institutions. It would also offer an excellent opportunity for the American people as well as the nations of the world to hear his message in full."

"Pope Francis has inspired millions of Americans with his pastoral manner and servant leadership to reflect on matters of human dignity, freedom and social justice. These principles are among the fundamentals of the American idea,” Boehner went on to say, “and though our nation sometimes fails to live up to these principles, at our best, we give them new life as we seek the common good."

OMG. We're seeking the common good, among other things, and we need the Pope to help steer us, we need to hear his message. O..M..G.

Combine that with inviting him here explicitly as the Holy See as a pastoral servant of God to deliver His message, and the fact that 30 percent of the Congress, including Boehner, is Catholic, and the fact that in the Catholic church the Pope has what is called Papal infallibility, and it's a significant problem. Papal infallibility is the dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error. He cannot be wrong. Not even possible. It states, "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."

That's some kind of serious influence over all the Christians of the Congressional legislative body, not to mention a veritable religious experience for those among them who are Catholic. When the Holy See tells you to jump, you don't even waste time to ask how high, you just jump.

Here's a little communion cracker for thought...
"Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so." - Robert A. Heinlein


Yeah, sure, the politics of it will be funny to watch, what with the Holy See embracing science literacy like evolution and climate change, and his position on helping the poor and on income inequality and his position as a hard-core socialist. I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans in Congress who are not at all excited at the prospect of the leader of the world’s 1.5 billion Catholic Christians officially and infallibly dressing them down in the name of God before a joint meeting of Congress and a worldwide television audience. Liberals will just crap themselves if he brings up abortion or same-sex marriage.


And to wash that communion cracker down...
"I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish, where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source, where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials." - John F Kennedy, September 12 1960


 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Like the ACLU? <snort>
Among others.

I really was referring to those here on this honorable message board that keep screaming about supporting the constitution in it's entirety, not just those parts you support. Where are they on this.
 
Top