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I Can't Breathe...

Moot

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I can't breathe because I'm dead.

I give credit to civil rights activist Reverend Jarrett Maupin for accepting an invitation and participating in a shoot/don't shoot law enforcement simulation. After the simulation Reverend Maupin said: “I didn’t understand how important compliance was… people need to comply with the orders of law enforcement officers, for their own safety.” I hope the Reverend spreads the word to his flock.

Video: Anti-police protester undergoes use of force scenario training
 

layoutshooter

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Good story, maybe Deblasio and Sharpton should take that course as well.

Those you mention want confrontation, regardless of the outcome. Injury and death suits their needs. They are not "activists" they are troublemakers and instigators. Their only concern is their own power.
 

cheri1122

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I can't breathe because I'm dead.

I give credit to civil rights activist Reverend Jarrett Maupin for accepting an invitation and participating in a shoot/don't shoot law enforcement simulation. After the simulation Reverend Maupin said: “I didn’t understand how important compliance was… people need to comply with the orders of law enforcement officers, for their own safety.” I hope the Reverend spreads the word to his flock.

Video: Anti-police protester undergoes use of force scenario training

People do need to comply for their own safety - if they don't, they can be handled pretty roughly, or Maced, or Tasered, to effect compliance. But they shouldn't be shot as a first response, as the kid in Cleveland was. Or when they are too far away [and without a weapon] to be a credible threat, as in Ferguson.
LEOs have a tough job, and it's understandable that they can't make the right split second call every time, but there are just too many times when they 'shoot first & ask questions later' for the general public's comfort.
It's too bad that the people who would most benefit from that training [like in the high crime areas] don't get the other side's perspective. Maybe it ought to be mandatory, after a conviction for resisting arrest.
Both sides need to stop escalating the confrontations, IMO.
 

danthewolf00

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That kid in Cleveland went for the "gun" that had been modified to look real....he had been seen acting like a thug waving the "gun" around at a park in a playground with other kids around. He went for the"gun" after being told to put his hands up on his head.
 

Turtle

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The kid in Cleveland wasn't given time to "go" after anything, including putting his hands up.

Then, they not only didn't give the kid medical aid, they tackled and arrested his 14 year old sister when she ran to him to give him aid. The first person to give him aid wasn't even affiliated with the police department, he was an FBI agent who happened to be nearby.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/09/u...-fatal-shooting-did-not-give-medical-aid.html
 

danthewolf00

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That kid would not have been shot and need first aid if he didn't have a pellet gun that looked like a real gun and grabbed it.
 

layoutshooter

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That kid would not have been shot and need first aid if he didn't have a pellet gun that looked like a real gun and grabbed it.

And the kid would not have been running around with that pellet gun had his parents been on top of things. I certainly would never have been allowed to have done such a thing.
 

mrgoodtude

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We weren't there.
We have been on a 7 day cruise, the 1'st night a 4 year old drowned and we returned to port. Spin doctors said the boy was fine, revived and whole. Truth was the boy was underwater for 6 min and never recovered. I wasn't there and had no idea.
Point being "if you ain't there you have no clue".
 

Jenny

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We weren't there.
We have been on a 7 day cruise, the 1'st night a 4 year old drowned and we returned to port. Spin doctors said the boy was fine, revived and whole. Truth was the boy was underwater for 6 min and never recovered. I wasn't there and had no idea.
Point being "if you ain't there you have no clue".

Someone drowned on our cruise too in mid December.

Sent from my XT1080 using Xparent Pink Tapatalk 2
 

witness23

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We weren't there.
We have been on a 7 day cruise, the 1'st night a 4 year old drowned and we returned to port. Spin doctors said the boy was fine, revived and whole. Truth was the boy was underwater for 6 min and never recovered. I wasn't there and had no idea.
Point being "if you ain't there you have no clue".

Here's a front row seat for ya.

 

jamom123

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You make dumb*** decisions bad things will happen. You attack a police officer in his car that's a dumb*** decision, you resist arrest that's a dumb*** decision. As Charles Barkley said if you fight the LEO bad things will happen.

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Pilgrim

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Here's a front row seat for ya.

Speaking of dumb, every time I see this video I can't help but think these are the two dumbest cops on the planet. It would be nice to see it in real time to determine exactly how much time elapsed between the cop car pulling up and the cop jumping out and shooting the kid; regardless, it wasn't much. Just a couple more random thoughts, some of which I've mentioned before:


  • Notice the kid didn't try to run - he had to have seen or heard them coming.
  • If he'd had a real weapon he could have emptied it into the cop car before they even got close.
  • The cop jumps out and shoots the kid, then takes cover behind the car. If the kid had been a dangerous gangbanger he could have shot both cops before they opened their doors.
  • At about 7:47 Moe and Larry have come from behind their cruiser and are pointing their weapons at the kid - who is obviously down and critically wounded - and are directly opposite each other! Maybe the "circular firing squad" is one of their training drills.

Maybe there's a dash cam video that tells a different story, but going by this one it appears the cops never tried to talk the kid out of the gun or gave him a chance to surrender.
 

witness23

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You make dumb*** decisions bad things will happen

"Bad things" as in death? Judge, Jury and Executioner, got it.

You attack a police officer in his car that's a dumb*** decision

Are you referring to the video above that the kid with the BB gun attacked the patrol car?

The kid was absolutely a friggen' idiot but he didn't deserve to die, let alone be shot in the first place.
 

layoutshooter

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There is a very good chance that if a cop, or cops, come on the scene of someone with a firearm, and they hesitate, the cops are either dead or harmed.

I am not saying the cops acted in a 100% correct manner, but my life was not on the line at that point, their's were.

Why was that kid in possession of that pellet gun in the first place? Why was he waving it around, which prompted the call to police? Why was he allowed to play with it when the orange "safety" ring was missing?

I was raised around guns, not air soft guns, real ones. I was taught, by my Dad, to respect what they can do, how to handle them, where and when is was appropriate to use them. I can promise you, had I taken one out without permission, regardless of what kind, my Dad would have whopped me so hard I would STILL feel it to this day.

This is a very tragic comedy of errors that goes way beyond the incident itself. Beyond the scope of the cops and the kid.

Looking at a "sterile" video does not even come close to the entire picture. This "incident" is the result of years of problems. I cannot second guess the actions of the cops. I just don't have enough information. I was not their, in their shoes, with my life on the line.

I do know one thing, we cannot "saddle" the cops with rules of engagement like we did our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, there will be dead cops all over the place if we do.

Maybe, just maybe, people should stop acting like idiots, quit the crime BS and become responsible citizens. Then there would never be a problem.

Like everything else, it all starts in the mirror.
 

Turtle

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Open carry is legal in Ohio. Holding a gun in your hand, even pretending you're a beauty queen in a parade with it, should not mean you are subject to being shot on sight by the police.

Why was that kid in possession of that pellet gun in the first place? Because it's a toy and he's a kid.

Why was he waving it around, which prompted the call to police? Because he was a kid playing with a toy.

Why was he allowed to play with it when the orange "safety" ring was missing? Probably because with or without the orange ring it's still a toy that shoots foam pellets. The cops didn't take the time to see whether there was or was not an orange ring on the gun, so the fact that the gun had no ring is irrelevant. The cop fired within 2 seconds of the cop car pulling up, and within one second of opening the door.

The cop who pulled the trigger quit his previous police job because he had been given an unsatisfactory fitness report in training and was in the process of being fired, in part because he was mentally unstable and in part because he couldn't properly handle a firearm. He had never served on duty on the streets at his previous job. After he had finished academy training he was assigned to a desk pending dismissal procedures. The Cleveland PD never even did an employment background check on him, and hired him at face value, something the Chief of Police describes as "a mistake" because that's not something they did in the past, but will now start doing.
 

layoutshooter

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Open carry is legal, for ADULTS, not children.

I knew what my kids had with them at that age, I always knew where they were and what they were doing. They would have never been allowed to do what that kid was doing. Why? Because they were taught not too, just as I was.

I am not making excuses for the cop nor am I saying he was 100% correct or even should have been hired as a cop. All I am saying is that it is not as simple, or clear cut, as many want to make it.

I do know a few things, I would never place my kids in a neighborhood where gangs and gangbangers are around. I made sure that they had supervision, not helicopter, but they knew someone was at the house. I taught them responsibility, courtesy and respect themselves and others. When they did wrong, they paid the price.

The events that led to this started decades ago. There is no one answer, no one solution. It is the responsibility of all who live, and work, in those hell holes called American cities, to fix it. It will take as long to fix as it took to mess it up. I promise you one thing, until there are intact families, little will change.
 

jamom123

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Are you referring to the video above that the kid with the BB gun attacked the patrol car?

I was not referring to the kid in Cleveland I was talking about Ferguson, where so many want to yell about an unarmed man being shot. He attacked the cop in his car and yes that is a DUMB*** decision.



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Turtle

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Open carry is legal, for ADULTS, not children.
And the cops thought he was in his 20s when they shot him.

Be that as it may, I'm not sure that open carrying as an adult is enough of a justification for being shot and killed, and I would think it's even less of a justification as a child.
 

layoutshooter

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And the cops thought he was in his 20s when they shot him.

Be that as it may, I'm not sure that open carrying as an adult is enough of a justification for being shot and killed, and I would think it's even less of a justification as a child.

It's not, and I never said it was. I said it is far more complicated than many want to make it and that the problems are multiphasic, span generations, and will not be solved quickly. It will never be solved as long as there are few intact families and personal responsibility is usurped by the state.

The problems are that basic.

What we are seeing are the symptoms, not the disease.
 
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