Household Movers Guide Rates

Prarysun

Seasoned Expediter
Hi I am new to this forum, and forgive me if this subject has already been discussed. I am wondering why Panther gives you a load offer and doesnt tell you up front they are using the Household movers guide program for a particular load? You find out after you have run at least part of the load, that your mileage and time are not adding up. So when I ask why I am 75, or 100 miles short, the standard answer I get from dispatch is that it is household movers guide. Seems to me, they should be upfront about shorting you miles. It is happening alot lately not just to me but others I have talked with on the subject. It has always been going on but then it eased up for awhile and now seems everyone I talk to about this seems to be getting zapped by it. I called OOIDA and found out some interesting information. One, the company must disclose what mileage program they are using IF YOU ASK. Two, they do not necessarily have to charge the customer the same miles they offer you. They can charge the customer what ever mileage they want to it is between the company and the customer. This doesn't seem fair to us as drivers and although unethical it may not be illegal sadly enough. So I guess what I am saying is why does Panther do this and aren't they concerned that we as drivers are being cheated out of miles and over the course of time lose a lot of money, and over the course of time will look for companies to drive for that do not have this policy. I know for a fact, because I worked for them, that Fed Ex Custom Critical does not do this, what ever your suggested mileage comes up on your QC is exactly what you get paid for. IMO, there is plenty of money to be made in this industry without cheating drivers out of 50 miles here, a hundred miles there etc etc etc. I see Panther monitors these posts so maybe we can get a truthful, however painful answer. In addition, those of you drivers with GPS can easily punch in the offer addresses and check before you accept the offer, how short the miles are going to be, but those of us who have not caught up with the times, or have GPS in our heads, unless we ask in advance, will not realize this until we add up the suggested miles after it is too late and have accepted the offer. Then again some of us who for whatever reason will accept the offer anyways, because we need the money, this is our only source of income, we get more miles than some companies do, we are complacent. If you take a ballpark figure, say 1500 trucks ,getting shorted on paid miles lets say an average of 30 miles per day to be fair, times an average of one dollar per mile to include all types of trucks, that comes out to 45,000 dollars per day out of your pockets, geez, not bad for the company, not so good for you! I know this is going to get some bad publicity, and some undies in a bunch, but just want see how many of you out there have the same questions. Thanks...:+
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Ours have been pretty accurate and sometimes over until this Conway deal. We had several over the last couple of weeks that we turned down because the milage was too low or inaccurate. Same deal on FSC. We had a couple come acrossed at low rates. We simply don't run them. We have a set number we run at, and if it comes in under that, it doesn't happen.
On the upside, I know that the Conway customers that were paying little surcharge ect are slowly getting visited and having their contract updated.
Your best bet is to ask at the time of the load offer what the milage is based on. Our drivers do have that advantage of laptops so the routing and milage can be checked prior to a load acceptance.
As you mentioned, I would always ask.









Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 
G

guest

Guest
Good point Dave, All the FedEX miles are right on and never short I must say FedEx has the best computer dept in the business. The one thing I like about FedEx is the people I have come to know and work with over the years their.

Rick Franks, Bobbi Bobett,lisa White, Kendra, And Tracy T. in the Kit team are a few of the great people there. We may not always agree on things but, the things always work themselfs out.

Drive safe

Dave Mayfield
FEDExCC/Roberts Express O/O Since 3/1/1995
C1847,C2045,D3397,D5047
 

scootr68

Expert Expediter
A few of our older contractual customers are under the HHG miles software. We only bill gor those miles paid, we don't charge the customer for more miles. Our sales force is slowly but surely getting these contracts rectified to charge the newest PC Miler program. Our dispatchers do not notice which program the load pays because the vast majority are PC Miler. Yes, we all agree it does suck but we're working on those customers. However, I have rarely seen a discrepency in the amount of miles you mention.
 

scootr68

Expert Expediter
>Anyone know who invented HHG miles?
>
>Must've been a crook - and should be locked up!
>
>Just my .02

That would be Rand McNally,lol!!
 

themagicoen

Expert Expediter
Well evreytime I got a HHG load from P2 the FS would be high, say .40-.50/mile range to help cover the differnce. Also if the load is for CAT you should know that its HHG.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
HHG was the first one avalible, if I remember right. There was not a computerized system when this came out, I think in the late 40's or early 50's (someone correct me if I am wrong). At the time the ICC required a guide to be used when estimating milleage between cities in order to stop the cheating of people by moving companies. The thing is that the majority of truck freight at that time was household freight, the rail system was still intacted and used for general freight.

Many shippers have been told that this is what they are to use by managment (i worked for a couple of them) and negotiate the contract with the carrier accordingly.

If this presents a problem, well what can I say - all I know is when I am given milleage from FedEx, 9 times out of 10 it is very close and have to agree with Dave.
 

simon says

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
My carrier also uses Household moves on some large contracts. Sometimes I look at the FSC to make sure it is high enough. If you ask dispatch they will tell you what it is based on: most know how to do that. The load is computer programmed per customer...
Usually my rule of thumb is how well it pays overall, am I close, and is it a decent run. Where one gets burnt on Household, is in the winter when a certain route is too slow or risky, like running up 219 North in PA. towards Buffalo.
No one likes Household, but fact is, PC short or Practical Miles isn't always paid! Companies win contracts on their ability to serve the customer first and foremost, if a customer pays his or all carriers on Household, what makes you think they will treat expeditors differently?
Again I make this point, If FECC is reducing FSC to a constant $.20 per mile, it is to become more competitive, as they apparently run all miles on PC miles, and their base rate is higher... :-(
 

RobA

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
>HHG was the first one avalible, if I remember right. There
>was not a computerized system when this came out, I think in
>the late 40's or early 50's (someone correct me if I am
>wrong). At the time the ICC required a guide to be used
>when estimating milleage between cities in order to stop the
>cheating of people by moving companies. The thing is that
>the majority of truck freight at that time was household
>freight, the rail system was still intacted and used for
>general freight.
>

I'm not sure when the guide came out but I saw it in the late 70's or early 80's before computers were common.
It was an Atlas, published by Rand McNally; and each town had what they called a "Circle Point". I believe it was the town or city's CITY HALL when ever possible.
It wasn't intended as an exact "to the mile" guide but gave mileage between these circle points. There was a way to calculate mileage from smaller communities near the larger Circle Point but I've forgotten those details.
This became the "de-facto" standard for basing carrier rates for irregular route common carriers (remember that phrase?) .
 

Prarysun

Seasoned Expediter
Hello again, I thank you all for your comments. In ans to Davekc at Panther, I have counted 5 overages on miles since 2002. All were 10 miles or under! I have counted over 300 pros (and that is not a complete count) where miles have been over at least 20, many 30 and so far 70 pros over 40 miles and so far 25 pros over 50 and 6 pros so far close to 100 miles or a little over. I will count the rest and submit the final count just for grins. I would be curious to know what percentage of our customers actually pay HHMG, I doubt I will get an answer to that, but in response to a couple of other people out there, I wish our fuel surcharges made up for the shortages. You mentioned some over 20 cpm, and heavens sake over 40 cpm, is that for semi's and/or straight trucks? I doubt it would be that high for vans. If it is, I am coming on over!! LOL. Occasionally we experience some higher fuel surcharges, (the emphasis is on occasionally!:+ ) And we have noticed since the ConWay takeover, most are coming in around 14 cpm. And because I have a former driver who just made the switch, ConWay drivers are getting a steady 14cpm, they do not get a FSC screen after the pro offer, it is simply a given that they get 14cpm FSC. To be fair, the 75 mile shortage on the run I did was 22 cpm. Please don't get me started on FSC fairness! lol I joined OOIDA to try and help make a difference. I urge all owner operators and drivers, no matter how small, or how large a fleet or just if you operate one vehicle, to join OOIDA, it's 45$ per year or 25$ if you join or renew at a truck show. Or you can simply call your local representatives and congresspersons and ask to get the Fuel Surcharge Bill passed. You can complain till Nelly the Cow comes home, it won't do any good unless we band together and act! We CAN make a difference, and if you can afford to turn down loads which are HHMG miles we CAN get the message out and our companies will have to make some changes or lose customers. Thank you all and have a loverly weekend! :7 }>
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I can't speak for the vans. As someone else mentioned, if we see something that is 30 miles short, it in most cases made up through the FSC. It is not uncommon to have a .45 to .55 FSC in those cases. That is with a straight truck. We look at what we are running the whole load for. In this case, this load may be more profitable than one that had a few more paid miles, but only paid a 30 cent FSC.
As mentioned, we have had very few but we have had them.
Nothing in a range of 100 miles. Why would you even consider it?
I can find my own freight before that would even be a possibility.
Again, I am only speaking of straight trucks. I don't watch van activity very closely.





Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
On a side note; HHG miles are actually pretty accurate if you are in a airplane.:7






Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

hill_top

Expert Expediter
I was told HHG miles are shorter because they can take side roads for moving household goods. Companies such as Allied Van Lines, Mayflower, etc. All other (large) commercial veh. are prohibited on the side streets and/or routes.
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
It is my understanding that Household Mover Tables were based upon railroad mileages. At the time they were established only the railroads had accurate records of point to point distances.

Guess what? I have a hard time keep my van on the railroad tracks to make my loaded miles come out correctly.

The bean counters who know about Household Mover Guides will contract based upon those distances. That is when a carrier with a strong marketing department says, "Actually, we use PC miles so that our contract drivers can provide you with QUALITY service based upon a fair rate for those services."

Properly presented, the shipper will see the value of having good service providers. And we can then remain profitable.
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Thank you DaveKC. I was to assume that the reason for the difference in mileage was that HHG went by air miles, not actual trucking routes.


Drive Safe!

Jeff
 

rode2rouen

Expert Expediter
>
>It was an Atlas, published by Rand McNally; and each town
>had what they called a "Circle Point". I believe it was the
>town or city's CITY HALL when ever possible.
>


I seem to remember that the MAIN POST OFFICE was the point. I also remember someone telling me that today's highway signs indicate mileage to the MPO.

Then again, they say the memory is the first thing to go, and I forget what the second is. [;)]


Rex
 

davebeckym

Expert Expediter
It was city hall before zip code came along, then became the post office for that particular zip code.

Before the expressways were built we took the Dixie Hwy from MI to FL. It was a lot less miles.
 
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