Hino Nightmare

PantherPower

Seasoned Expediter
The following is a detailed account of the nightmare I have experienced with the lease of my 2008 Hino 338.

One day, somewhere around February 20, 2008, I visited with my recruiter. I learned that I could get into my own truck and I proceeded along those lines where, on February 27, 2008, I sent in the documentation fees via overnight mail to the leasing company. I was told that my truck would be delivered within 5 days after receiving the payment. The payment was received the next day, and I took delivery of my truck on March 3, 2008. This is where the problems began;

I immediately noticed several things wrong with the truck. The gearing was wrong for highway use; the rpm's were at redline at 70mph. There was a bench seat on the passenger side which made it extremely difficult to access the sleeper. The exhaust exited directly under the sleeper which is in direct violation of DOT regulations. The rear axle was located too far to the rear of the truck which severely limited my load capacity (this will be covered more later), and I was charged an additional $4000 to install a 1-cubic foot refrigerator, microwave, inverter, charge controller, and two batteries. The inverter isn't even strong enough to run the microwave! The representative models that the recruiters had seen had all that and WAY more at no additional charge! And finally, the fuel tank on the driver side was inaccessible. Meaning that the filler hole was too close to the bottom of the sleeper to be able to put fuel in. The large diesel nozzle simply would not fit in due to lack of clearance.

I had possession of the truck, but could not go in service until I had a plate. The dealer that the leasing company bought the truck from didn't release the title until the end of the month. It was March 27 by the time I finally got the title and plate. A FULL MONTH had passed from the time I sent my fees in to when I could actually go into service. It was during this time that I began to voice my concerns with my sales rep. I got absolutely nowhere with him. He insisted that the truck was built correctly and that I basically didn't know what I was talking about. I eventually got a hold of a the Senior Vice-President of Maintenance, Hino North America. After a phone conversation and submitting a few pictures, he got some people to move. On April 1, 2008, I was instructed to bring the truck to a dealer in Romulus, Michigan. They are the leading Hino conversion expert. They inspected the truck and agreed that everything I had felt was wrong was indeed wrong. After another 2 weeks of the dealer and the lessor blaming each other for the mistakes, the dealer finally footed the bill (over $6600) to correct the problems. I left the truck with the Romulus dealer on April 16.

During the time between April 1 and April 16, I was running the truck as I had received it. The location of the rear axle had limited my capacity to about 7500 pounds. It was so far to the rear that the front axle carried too much of the truck's unladen weight. The front axle weighed in at 10,400 pounds with a 6,500 pound load The axle's capacity is 11,000. I was supposed to be able to carry almost 13,000, but it is obvious that with that much weight, the front axle would be grossly overloaded.

On a run to North Carolina, on April 14, the engine started to rattle really loud. Diesels normally rattle, but not like this was. I knew the oil was full, but I actually stopped and double-checked it again because the noise was very loud and troubling. It was in fact full, and it was about time for an oil change, so I figured I'd stop and have that done after I delivered. The problems got worse. I was coming to a stop on the off-ramp. I felt the engine wanting to stall and I had to put it into neutral and keep on the accelerator to keep it running. It felt to me as if the fuel filter was clogged or something. I immediately brought the truck in for service and had an oil change and had the fuel filter changed.

The rattle was still there, but not as pronounced. It was running fine, though. Seemed as if it was in fact a clogged fuel filter after all. The next load from there was to Michigan. I got about 600 miles down the road and the rattle got louder, it started to run rough again, and the Check Engine light came on. It was then that I went to the dealer in Romulus and told them about the problems and got it on the schedule to have the corrections made to the truck (axle relocation, gear ratio change, etc.), and have these issues with the rattling and Check Engine light diagnosed. The technician hooked up to the truck and found Fault Code P0087: Insufficient Common Rail Fuel Pressure. He said that the rattling was because the valves needed to be adjusted (not due until 50,000 miles but needed to be done NOW). He cleared the code and told me to "keep an eye on it". If it ever happened again, bring it in. The valve adjustment was supposed to be done while they had the truck, but it was not. I was told that the leasing company refused to approve the repair. The truck is under warranty, for one, and any maintenance comes out of MY pocket. Why are they refusing repairs that obviously need to be done. Who said no or why, I have been unable to determine. I was charged $90 to pull the code. Where is the warranty at this point?

Fast-forward to May 27, 2008. After the corrections made by Interstate, the truck averaged between 8.5 and 9.5mpg. It has declined steadily since to about 6.5 to 7. On May 27, the truck suddenly lost power and the Check Engine light came on. The truck will not go any faster than 50 to 55mph and fuel economy drops to 5.5 to 6 (there is a gauge for mpg's). It began where if you shut off the truck and restarted it, the light would be out and it would run fine for 50 to 100 miles before it happened again. I was in New Mexico at the time and checked on the internet for the nearest Hino dealer. Nothing until Oklahoma City, but they weren't open at the time we'd be rolling through. Being that we had a load, it was either limp it along or lose the load. I have bills to pay and the truck payment is due regardless to my situation, so the better choice was to limp it. The next best choice along our path was in Indianapolis. They were open but NO HINO TECH ON DUTY ON SECOND SHIFT!! Can't sit until morning. Kept limping it to our delivery in Ohio and then made a beeline for a dealer in Cleveland. They pulled the code. P0087 again. Spent ALL DAY there on the 30th. They ran some tests and the data had to be e-mailed to Hino to analyze. The guy never got back to them until the 2nd of June. Down for 4 days for them to just change the fuel filter and blow out the lines. The fuel filter was just changed about 2,000 miles ago, which I told them. Doesn't matter; they have to do what the rep tells them to do. Billed ME $170. Again I ask, where is the warranty??

So, I leave there with a load to New Mexico. I get 140 miles down the road and the light is back on and have no power. I get the load on the truck and start looking for a Hino dealer. 8 miles away! Cool! Not open until 8am and its 11 pm. Can't wait. Next one is 350 miles away. Open, but no Hino tech on duty. Next choice is 475 miles out; Nashville, Tennessee. Limp it all the way there at 50mph and 5mpg. Time and money are out the window.

In Nashville, I tell them the history and they pull the code. P0087. I only have a couple of hours to spare and I have to get rolling again if I'm going to keep the load. They tell me it needs a common rail fuel pressure sensor. Ok, next chance I get, I'll have that done. I get billed another $115 for nothing. I get 100 more miles out of it and it gets worse. Top speed of 45. I make the difficult decision to give up the load rather than take the chance of making it be late. I have to meet a truck in Memphis and there is another location (of this particular dealer chain) there. On the morning of Wednesday, June 4, I get the truck in and they road test it. The light comes on for them and they experience the problem first-hand. But again, they have to send the data to Hino to analyze. At the end of the day they tell me that the Hino rep told them they are running out-dated diagnostic software. He will mail them a disc. Thursday comes and goes with no disc. Friday morning I call to see if they got it yet. No, not yet, but they can download it from the internet. Could have done that Wednesday. More time and money wasted. Finally, at 7pm on Friday, a common rail fuel pressure sensor is installed. The following morning I get a load to Laredo. 138 miles into it, guess what?? SAME THING!! I give up the load and head to a 3rd dealer of this chain in Little Rock. Got here Saturday afternoon. Can't even look at it until Monday the 9th. The next day, they pull it in at 08:80 for an hour. More tests. It is then parked until 14:30. The tech comes to get it and I ask him what is on the agenda. Change the fuel filter and blow out the lines. After complaining to the service manager that it was just done 1100 miles ago, he says that the Hino rep said to do that and send him more data. Nothing was done the rest of the day. Come Wednesday at about 13:00, I'm free to go. Blowing out the lines (yesterday) was all they're authorized to do.

So, here I sit waiting for a load. Want to bet the light comes on in 100-150 miles?? The leasing company won't do squat. Hino won't do squat. This is the best warranty in the business??
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
I really feel for you, pal. After reading all the stuff on this forum about people's misfortunes with this manufacturer, we will never consider one. Husb expressed interest in them awhile back. Even if the few on here complaining about the problems are small in number, relative to all the owners of these vehicles, who can afford to take the chance? I hope they get their stuff together real fast, for all your sake's. And good luck with yours. Keep us posted. :mad:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
So I am going to assume that the company you are contracted to was the one who actualy convinced you to go to this dealer?

Well if so, what are they saying about it or are they saying 'your problem'? I would expect a reputable company to take the time to follow up on vendors they pick to promote and to make sure that their contractors get a good deal. The other thing you may look at is if there is a lemon law, some states have them with trucks - or I am told. I would regardless start looking for a lawyer to recover money that should have been covered under warentty and also get the manufacture involved.

But an important lesson is that you DO NOT have to accept the truck if it not what you ordered. Refusal to accept it is done all the time and this is why dealers should be careful with the orders they place.
 

PantherPower

Seasoned Expediter
My carrier has made phone calls and sent e-mails, but so far they have got nowhere. They don't use the leasing company in question anymore so that ruins any chances of leverage (i.e., fix this problem or we won't use you anymore).

I looked into the "lemon law" (the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act) and it does not apply to leased vehicles. Furthermore, the lessor doesn't have a truck to replace the one I have. The last thing the guy there told me after I told him what the last "fix" was; "Good luck to ya. Keep us posted."

I hope that sooner or later, someone will know what the hell they are doing and actually FIX this thing.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
This is not really pointed towards you but I can't understand why someone would buy a new truck where there are hundreds of used trucks out there and the headaches sometimes can be less with issues.

I am sorry that you have this problem, maybe the lawyer would get you out of the lease if there is no other recourse and may recup the cost of the repairs that were done.
 

Tom911

Seasoned Expediter
kg...maybe you have your horror story made into a movie...maybe call it "National Lampoon Expediter" and get Chevy Chase to play the role of the driver...and good luck to you...
 

PantherPower

Seasoned Expediter
Greg,

I got it because;

1) No credit check
2) $0 down ($350 doc fees)
3) 3 years/unlimited miles bumper-to-bumper warranty
4) Maintenance escrow account included in weekly payment

Simply put, this was the only way for me to get my own truck. My credit is shot and I have never made enough money driving for someone else to pay my bills, let alone put anything down on a new or used truck. I'm sure others are in the same situation and probably would do the same. The idea of having a NEW truck is so you don't have to worry about breakdowns and repairs for the duration of the lease. Until, of course, you have a situation like mine.

When the truck runs, I do just fine getting the miles and making the payments, etc. Sure, everyone says not to buy a truck unless you have 10 grand banked up. You shouldn't need to with a new truck with a full warranty and a maintenance program.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
When the truck runs, I do just fine getting the miles and making the payments, etc. Sure, everyone says not to buy a truck unless you have 10 grand banked up. You shouldn't need to with a new truck with a full warranty and a maintenance program.
=================================
Oh....but you do!
I'm not gong to bust your chops, but your story is even more reason.
I clearly advocate having that 10K for this type of breakdown and any type of accident whether your fault or not.
If someone hits you, yes you may be compensated.......6 months from that accident. What do you do in the mean time?
Have the 10k before you go buying a truck.

As far as the Hino bit, I really feel for you. Based on my last post on a Freightliner dealer experience, I think I will run to a corner and ponder my thoughts.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Six months Dave? We had a truck rear ended in a construction zone nearly three years ago. Have not settled for the down time yet. And, had to pay the repairs to get the truck back to work right away, steada waiting for......things to happen.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
That's awhile. We have had some crashes over the years but nothing in that time frame for recovery. But....you did get the truck on the road in less time than those six months and that took some CASH. Might have been more than that 10k?
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Yepper it wuz more. But, if you have to or choose to wait for the administrative bs, you may as well go on vacation. Interestingly, bout the time we were going to settle. Katrina came along, and the insurance company for the other truck is based in LA. Funny how things not related to your situation/problem affects you.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Sure, everyone says not to buy a truck unless you have 10 grand banked up. You shouldn't need to with a new truck with a full warranty and a maintenance program.

I'm not picking on you, just pointing something out for our viewing/listening audience. I'd say your unfortunate experience is even more proof of why this "rule" is always repeated. Murphy doesn't care about the full warranties and maintenance programs, he just sees an opportunity where the emergency fund isn't there as backup. I hope you finally get this resolved without much more grief and drama. Good luck.
 

PantherPower

Seasoned Expediter
Thanks for the input guys. I know it would be great to have that emergency fund right now. Some of us can only dream of having that much money sitting aside.

Meanwhile, I'm in a downward spiral. Don't see a way to recover with my next settlement approaching $3000 in the hole.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Thanks for the input guys. I know it would be great to have that emergency fund right now. Some of us can only dream of having that much money sitting aside.

Meanwhile, I'm in a downward spiral. Don't see a way to recover with my next settlement approaching $3000 in the hole.

Well I know how it is... I was 6 in the hole from my medical mess in April/may and almost out of that now until they took the tires out of this settlement and left me with -$450 in my account. So I will be caught up with that mess and onto the next one.

For what it's worth, I remain calm and determined to have some success out of my messes.
 

PantherPower

Seasoned Expediter
Update;

Got 107 miles and the light came on and I lost power. While on a load. Easy come, easy go. Back at the dealer in Memphis. Can't get me in until Monday. Go figure.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Spend the weekend looking into your lemon laws.. I remember reading something about.. so many visits to the repairshop for a certain thing.. they can't fix it.. it's deemed a lemon..
As well as counting to 10 repeatedly, and taking deep breaths of course :eek:
 

PantherPower

Seasoned Expediter
PJ,

Thanks for the advice, but I have already done that. The "lemon law" (the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act) does not apply to leased vehicles. The lessor is expected to give you a different vehicle, I suspect. I am pursuing that avenue, but so far I'm not having any luck there, either. Need an attorney I guess, but that requires money that I don't have. Hence the requirement for a "rainy day fund". Never dreamed I'd have so many problems out of a check engine light!
 
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x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
I guess hind sight is 20/20 for you now, and you wish you had not accepted delivery of that truck in your haste to "get rolling", with what you have described as obvious speching mistakes. Many will listen to the sales people about delivery schedule, and "claim" to be truck experts, when, they are in fact, sales people. A person should be working until the day you get into your new ride. Don't quit your income producer until the equipment is ready, and, ready right. That way you are less inclined to make hasty mistakes like we are reading about here.

Because they are not willing to fix your minor problem, maybe the solution would be, the next time the light comes on, jes keep runn'in her, an let em fix a bigger problem, and get it right. Prolly won't cost as much down time.
 
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