Hino burner malfunction

Niko

Rookie Expediter
Owner/Operator
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Hello all. I own 5 Hino trucks. In particular, I have a 2013 hino 258 that is throwing a code p141f. The truck will not complete a regen. Sometimes taking more than 1.5 hours. I can clear the code with a basic scanner and it will regen, only to reappear after about a day. I replaced the plug wires and ohmed the plugs and flame temp sensor. All are good. I disconnected the atomizer line and checked the nozzle and it is clear (had a little soot but cleaned up easily). My only issue is I'm not getting any fuel into that line, only air. I found out through hino that there is a filter (which i found) and a fuel pump. I'm in the process of getting the filter sent which i will replace. The pump is around 700.00usd from hino. Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks in advance.
 

Hino123

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A P141F is a generic code set in the ECU for a burner malfunction. You need to retrieve the code from the BCU, and a generic handheld scanner in most cases will not communicate with the BCU (burner control unit). There are a series of tests you can run with the DX2 dealer software that would more easily diagnose this issue, the fuel pump is NOT on constantly and would be hard to diagnose without the dealer software. It is in a very unassailable spot to boot. You could give it a dedicated power and ground and make sure it is running but I suspect your issue is elsewhere. I have replaced only 1 fuel pump in the 7 years the fuel pump has been in use.
The Nozzle has a filter in it, you need to remove it and spray brake clean through it, even then it might still be plugged. I have had some you can spray brake clean through, yet when on the truck the nozzle pressure was as high as 20psi. The only way to 100% verify proper nozzle pressure is to command the master air valve on and monitor the nozzle psi. If near 150k replace it.
Have you removed and cleaned the igniters? Remove them both, clean the soot off them and re-install. Note the condition do they look wet, heavily sooted, tips worn? There is a go-no-go gauge that is used to set them to a specific gap. If near 75k 150k replace them.
The flame temp can not be just ohmed you need megometer to induce voltage and check the insulation resistance as well. These meters are roughly $700. If it is bent replace it. If it is near 75k or 150k replace it.
How many miles? If near 75k, or 150k you need to perform the scheduled burner maintenance.
75k replace the flame temp, igniters, burner fuel filter, clean the orifice hole, clean nozzle and check nozzle pressure.
150k remove the DPR and have it cleaned (if soot on the outlet replaced), replace igniters,nozzle, flame temp, burner filter, clean orifice.
If there is soot in the tailpipe or on the fuel tank the DPR is most likely breached and needs to be replaced. (remove and inspect, if soot on outlet replace and clean t-pipe)
Hino after-treatment warranty is 5yr-100kmi. unless you have extended coverage, but most do not. If you are within the 5yr 100k mi, It may be a warrantable failure. If you pm me your vin I can check for recalls and warranty coverage.
Usually when re-gens take a long time to complete there is a temperature issue, there are alot of things that can cause this. A little more info would be helpful. Thanks
 

Niko

Rookie Expediter
Owner/Operator
Offline
A P141F is a generic code set in the ECU for a burner malfunction. You need to retrieve the code from the BCU, and a generic handheld scanner in most cases will not communicate with the BCU (burner control unit). There are a series of tests you can run with the DX2 dealer software that would more easily diagnose this issue, the fuel pump is NOT on constantly and would be hard to diagnose without the dealer software. It is in a very unassailable spot to boot. You could give it a dedicated power and ground and make sure it is running but I suspect your issue is elsewhere. I have replaced only 1 fuel pump in the 7 years the fuel pump has been in use.
The Nozzle has a filter in it, you need to remove it and spray brake clean through it, even then it might still be plugged. I have had some you can spray brake clean through, yet when on the truck the nozzle pressure was as high as 20psi. The only way to 100% verify proper nozzle pressure is to command the master air valve on and monitor the nozzle psi. If near 150k replace it.
Have you removed and cleaned the igniters? Remove them both, clean the soot off them and re-install. Note the condition do they look wet, heavily sooted, tips worn? There is a go-no-go gauge that is used to set them to a specific gap. If near 75k 150k replace them.
The flame temp can not be just ohmed you need megometer to induce voltage and check the insulation resistance as well. These meters are roughly $700. If it is bent replace it. If it is near 75k or 150k replace it.
How many miles? If near 75k, or 150k you need to perform the scheduled burner maintenance.
75k replace the flame temp, igniters, burner fuel filter, clean the orifice hole, clean nozzle and check nozzle pressure.
150k remove the DPR and have it cleaned (if soot on the outlet replaced), replace igniters,nozzle, flame temp, burner filter, clean orifice.
If there is soot in the tailpipe or on the fuel tank the DPR is most likely breached and needs to be replaced. (remove and inspect, if soot on outlet replace and clean t-pipe)
Hino after-treatment warranty is 5yr-100kmi. unless you have extended coverage, but most do not. If you are within the 5yr 100k mi, It may be a warrantable failure. If you pm me your vin I can check for recalls and warranty coverage.
Usually when re-gens take a long time to complete there is a temperature issue, there are alot of things that can cause this. A little more info would be helpful. Thanks
Thanks so much.

I did remove nozzle and cleaned it. It did spray clear through after. I removed the line into the nozzle and all i get is air, but no fuel, that's why i was assuming a problem with fuel supply from the pump. I traced the lines back and changed the filter associated with the system as well. The plugs looked good but i also cleaned them up as well. I'll pm you the VIN. I can here air shooting through the system and it's rather loud. I have another 2013 that runs flawless. The DPF filter service was done less than 25k miles ago.
 

Hino123

Seasoned Expediter
Researching
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Im not sure you would ever see fuel out of that hose unless the truck was in a scr warm up or performing a regen. There is a test you can perform in which you, remove the line from the nozzle, place it in a graduated cylinder, command the atomizer on and measure the fuel delivered. This would verify the mixing of air/fuel in the atomizer and the ability of the fuel pump to deliver the correct amount of fuel to the atomizer. You will get some air out if the atomizer steel braided line, this is normal. It blows air through the nozzle to help keep it clear of soot, it also fires the igniters once an hr or so to keep them free of soot.
Unfortunatlly there is not much I can do but guess, without more data and being able to put my hands on the truck. If you were to get the root code stored in the bcu that would be extremely helpful. I can send you a copy of the P2030 troubletree and that may help you have a better understanding of the Burner and what to look for, you will also see that alot of the tests are performed via the dealer software. The PDF is too large to send in a pm on this forum, if you would like a copy PM me your personal email.
I was able to check your warranty records, you are out of emissions warranty but still have some extended engine coverage left. It ends on 12-26-17 or 250k whichever comes first. I would strongly recommend giving the engine a once over at a dealer before this runs out, cam housing oil leaks and oil cooler leaks are two common issues to look for.
Greasytshirt may have some insite but im not sure how much more help I can be without you taking it to the dealer to have the code pulled. Limping it along by constantly clearing the code is most likely only going to compound your issue.
Lastly is there any soot in the tailpipe? And can you explain "air shooting through system". Where exactly? Running, not running, when you cycle the key off? Will it go away if you tighten the steel braided line at the nozzle? At the atomizer? Any fuel leaks at the atomizer? Help me, help you!
 

greasytshirt

Moderator
Staff member
Mechanic
Offline
Like Hino123 said, further burner troubleshooting is going to be extremely difficult without dealer software.

Fixing leaks under warranty is a prime focus for you. The top stack is Hino headgaskets, most done under warranty for external oil or coolant leaks.
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Niko

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Owner/Operator
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Hey guys thanks for the help. Took it to the dealer and they tested it with Hino software. The code was p141f. The diagnosis was to replace the nozzle and braided line. I'm waiting for them to get it finished up. Total cost was close to $1000. They said the fuel pressure in the atomizer is high signaling a bad nozzle and/or fuel line. I don't really have a choice but to fix it because when that truck is down i'm losing $.

I would like some recommendations on which Hino software to buy and where from. Since I have 5 of these.

Thanks again guys. I'm going to just pony up for the software. I know it'll pay for itself.
 

greasytshirt

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Mechanic
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If you go to Hino.com, there's a link to Snap-On, you download it from there. You also need a Nexiq Usb-link2 and a laptop with a decent amount of RAM and Windows 7 professional.

Sent from my XT1585 using EO Forums mobile app
 
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Niko

Rookie Expediter
Owner/Operator
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Dealer replaced the nozzle, fuel line, and atomizer. All for the low low price of $3600. I need to buy that software. The dealer here is just a glorified parts changer.

Thanks for your help gentlemen.
 
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