Economy is looking better

[paullud]

It looks like manufacturing and construction are doing better than expected. I find it odd we are pushing companies to outsource manufacturing jobs and insource construction jobs when they are so important to America.

http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/m...&title=headline&linkstr=news.yahoo.com&pos=27

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[greg334]

If we go down the path of manufacturing as an important part of the economy and dump money into it which the government has been doing in the past 14 years, we have two problems which are related to each other -

1 - the jobs that are created are not going to be at the level of the recent past even if the output is the same. Technology is needed to compete on a global scale, technology means less people to do the same thing.

2 - to make up for those jobs that were not created, we will have to go back to the old way of producing things which got us into trouble in the first place and reduce our productivity to our former numbers which means number one is now unachievable. This also means that those who work will have to take a pay cut below market value just to keep working.

Construction jobs are broken down between new housing and other construction with state and local government building projects being lumped into the latter when it should be separated out. These are not creating new jobs but keeping people working while other things wait - road construction is a perfect example, no big hiring push was made but the companies who bid on the work and got it scheduled their projects around the work to keep the payroll low and profits high. Housing is still taking a beating and we are in a deflationary cycle still which makes people worried about their home values.

The biggest issue looming on the horizon is the European markets and the problems they are handing us. IF it wasn't for Germany shoring up the EU last week, we would have seen a real hit in our markets and people would start to panic. BUT it isn't over yet, a lot of people in Germany are now getting upset with their money bailing out the EU instead of other countries stepping up efforts to solve their own problems. I think if they attempt another bail out, which is going to be needed, the German people may force their government to change.

 

[layoutshooter]

ONLY if we look at manufacturing the same old toys as we used too. There are lots of NEW toys that we import that could be made here that could pick up some of the slack created by more streamlined means of building cars etc. I bet one could come up with some new toys that would sell and are not being made anywhere. Nothing is static.

Example: diesel, we COULD switch over to producing 100% of our diesel fuel here in the US. We would use coal as the base as opposed to oil. We have plenty of coal. Just one idea. It would create REAL jobs with a future. Solve a many other problems as well.

 

[layoutshooter]

MORE jobs could be created by expanding the use of "black liquor" in diesel production. That source could compliment the coal and help dispose of a toxic substance.

NEW ideas, not just the old ones, are the answer.

 

[paullud]

MORE jobs could be created by expanding the use of "black liquor" in diesel production. That source could compliment the coal and help dispose of a toxic substance.

NEW ideas, not just the old ones, are the answer.

Exactly, we can even focus on green technology or building the robots. Even if repetitive tasks are done by robots there are still plenty of jobs that go along with them.

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[layoutshooter]

Exactly, we can even focus on green technology or building the robots. Even if repetitive tasks are done by robots there are still plenty of jobs that go along with them.

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The idea is NOT always looking for one auto plant to hire 5000 people. I would prefer to see 100 small operations, with new ideas, that hire 500 each.

 

[scottm4211]

The idea is NOT always looking for one auto plant to hire 5000 people. I would prefer to see 100 small operations, with new ideas, that hire 500 each.

Check your math

 

[layoutshooter]

Check your math

Not worried about the math, more worried about the concepts. I never claimed to be good at either math or spelling. The concepts are right. It WILL work. What we need is government OUT OF THE WAY so we can pursue this. Government need not direct, suggest or subsidize. They need to crawl back into their hole where they belong and let the American People do what they do best. Invent, improve and make money doing it. It is called FREEDOM.

 

[greg334]

Exactly, we can even focus on green technology or building the robots. Even if repetitive tasks are done by robots there are still plenty of jobs that go along with them.

Apparently you don't get this but here is a clue, the robots will have to have a limited life built in in order to sustain the jobs to build them.

It is like cars, with more cars being on the road longer (once upon a time a 100,000 mile car was something to behold), there is less of a need for new cars. Then you have a used car market where the leased cars come up for sale and that puts more of a dent into sales.

 

[paullud]

Apparently you don't get this but here is a clue, the robots will have to have a limited life built in in order to sustain the jobs to build them.

It is like cars, with more cars being on the road longer (once upon a time a 100,000 mile car was something to behold), there is less of a need for new cars. Then you have a used car market where the leased cars come up for sale and that puts more of a dent into sales.

There are maintenance jobs, shipping/receiving jobs, managers, QC, etc. The idea is even if the robots are there to do the repetitive tasks there are still plenty of jobs to go along with them. We manufacture more than cars.

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[greg334]

There are maintenance jobs, shipping/receiving jobs, managers, QC, etc. The idea is even if the robots are there to do the repetitive tasks there are still plenty of jobs to go along with them. We manufacture more than cars.

OK those are anculary jobs, and pretty much the same thing. You can take a loading dock and put three people on it with automation equipment to load and unload things and that can replace maybe 30 people.

Managers?

Really?

Quality assurance is improved by the lack of people and the latitude they are given in quality of work they produce.

Maintenance?

Ever been around robots?

I understand your point and pretty much agree some jobs are going to be produced but nevertheless, my point is valid and is talked about more often when the subject comes up. politically and unrealistically speaking we can't return to those days of large workforces to build things no matter what the Unions want or the people think.

If we really want to improve employment here, we really have to look at how the worker interacts with the company and how the company interacts with the government. Once we shed this outdated 19th century idea that the government is the good guys and all corporations are evil, maybe we can start fixing the problems the right way.

 

[paullud]

The maintenance jobs I am thinking of are machine maintenance mechanics, not janitors, although some janitors would still be needed. I think we pretty much agree, I think the unions fought hard to keep robots out of factories which made it a much better idea to just move the positions overseas. We need to embrace the future which is going to be a business with a smaller workforce, whether that workforce is in China or here is up to the American people. If more people got out of the class warfare mindset and realized these corporations make a lot of money but provide so much more than people realize.

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[mjmsprt40]

The only problem I see with the idea of letting corporations be free of regulation is that the idea of more competition that way doesn't seem to work in actual practice.

What really happens is that as one company gets bigger than its rivals, it starts to buy up the smaller outfits. Eventually you end up with two or three corporate giants hungrily eying each other for merger, and the resultant merges always result in a net loss of jobs as the new corporations pare down duplications.

In the end, you have one corporate monolith that sends all the remaining jobs to India, imports the products the Indians produce, then can't understand why all those out-of-work Americans aren't mobbing the stores to buy their products. Gee, I wonder how that happened?

 

[layoutshooter]

The only problem I see with the idea of letting corporations be free of regulation is that the idea of more competition that way doesn't seem to work in actual practice.

What really happens is that as one company gets bigger than its rivals, it starts to buy up the smaller outfits. Eventually you end up with two or three corporate giants hungrily eying each other for merger, and the resultant merges always result in a net loss of jobs as the new corporations pare down duplications.

In the end, you have one corporate monolith that sends all the remaining jobs to India, imports the products the Indians produce, then can't understand why all those out-of-work Americans aren't mobbing the stores to buy their products. Gee, I wonder how that happened?

I believe that it is OVER regulation by government that is killing jobs and holding back invention. Example: subsidizing electric car sales, which few people want and do not perform in real life. Killing sales, hurts production, lowers profits. Yep, good thing those regulations.

The government makes stupid statements about an "addiction" to foreign oil but inhibits production in THIS country and then uses taxpayer dollars to subsidize production in ANOTHER country so we can import more. Yep, government regs help.

 

[purgoose10]

Yes it picket up 1%, that's not much. BUT this is the 4th quarter typically the best before not just Christmas but election year. Don't clap your hands until Feb and March lets see what happens then. 1st quarter this year was not bad, lets see what the coming year has to offer. If it looks like numb nuts has a chance of recapturing the white house then sell everything you own and move to Costa Rica.

 

[layoutshooter]

Yes it picket up 1%, that's not much. BUT this is the 4th quarter typically the best before not just Christmas but election year. Don't clap your hands until Feb and March lets see what happens then. 1st quarter this year was not bad, lets see what the coming year has to offer. If it looks like numb nuts has a chance of recapturing the white house then sell everything you own and move to Costa Rica.

Sell most of what I own and buy several pallets of ammo.

 

[purgoose10]

Sell most of what I own and buy several pallets of ammo.

You buy the ammo I'll build the compound.

 

[layoutshooter]

You buy the ammo I'll build the compound.

Sounds good. Up around Little Bay De Noc. Plenty of great fishing, fresh water, wood for fuel, lots of local and migratory games. On the pennesula on the east side of the bay, away from the cities.

 

[greg334]

Sell most of what I own and buy several pallets of ammo.

So seeing you are all for ignoring the constitution on matters of citizen's rights, it's alright for the BTAF to come to your house and load that ammo up in their vans to take it away from you?

Right?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

what we need is 50 cetane...not this made in America crap of 38 to 40 cetane.... our diesels run like crap, low fuel mileage and this cheap stuff is dirty...higher cetane is green...burns more complete and less pollution...