down hill spiral
- Thread starter ttruck
- Start date
That's news to me too TTRUCK, when did you hear that? I'm just wondering what's happened to dispatch this morning. POD sent at 00:13 07/03/11 with the green check mark and the QC appears to be down along with the phones and websites. If it was a planned computer upgrade, it would have been nice to let us know. Oh well, time for another good nite's sleep.
miguy1957
Expert Expediter
Maybe He has turned down a couple of loads, and if he turns down another it would put him under 67% acceptance, and they wont offer him anything else unless hes the only truck around. IMO. That is forced Dispatch. As an O/O you should be able to take, or reject as many loads that will keep you profitable. Not up to a point then you are forced to take whatever they send your way.
It would be nice if you could be able to take, or reject as many loads that will keep you profitable, and from a philosophical standpoint you can. From a reality standpoint, however, you can only do that if you have your own authority. When you lease on with a carrier, though, you are transferring the right to possession and/or use of goods or equipment (your truck) for a term in return for consideration. You and your truck become a tool for the carrier. If that tool becomes unreliable then the carrier will stop using it. It's really that simple. The carrier is there for carrier, not us.
If you are "forced" to take whatever they send your way, because you are at or below 67%, then you are forcing yourself to take it. They carrier is not forcing you to take it, as you can still turn it down. But it's a situation you got yourself into, by your own actions. There are exceptions, of course, but generally speaking when someone is below 67% it is because they are cherry picking, and have turned down loads that are profitable, it's just that they weren't primo loads with the kind of miles the O/O wants.
I'm usually in the 95% to 100% acceptance range, but I do turn down most of the loads that don't count as a refusal (more than 8 hours, more than 40% deadhead, etc). I turned down a load last week that was profitable for most people, including me. 12 miles deadhead, 187 miles, paid $1.07 per mile. It went from Dallas to Shreveport, but I had just spent the previous Friday-thru-Monday in Shreveport and finally got a load to Dallas. Then one from Houston to northeast Arkansas, and then one right back down to Dallas. I didn't want to go right back to Shreveport to end up sitting for a week or having to deadhead back to Dallas or up to Memphis or something, so I figured I'd wait it out for something better.
If I spend a lot of time in Midwest Hell my acceptance rate drops for the same kinds of reasons. A short load going to a place where there are 4 times as many vans as loads just so I can sit 2 or 3 days just to get another load going to an identical situation. No thanks, I'll pass.
The key is to know the rules of the game so you can use them to your advantage, to know when you should and should not turn down loads. You have to know how the acceptance is calculated. It's all of the previous calendar month plus the days of the current month.
Let's say it's the last week of June, so you acceptance is calculated using all of May plus all of the days so far in June. In May you had 12 load offers and you took 10 of them. So far in June you have had 11 load offers and you have turned down three of them. You're 18 of 23 in acceptance, for 78% acceptance. Another crappy load comes in and you turn it down, you drop to 75% acceptance, no big deal. Right? Wrong. Two days later you still haven't gotten another load offer and now it's July 1 and all of May drops off the backend, so now you have all of June and the one day in July. You are now 7 for 11 in acceptance for 64% and you just screwed yourself by turning down that last load (or one of the other three in June that were profitable, just not primo). If you'd have turned down three instead of 4 in June, you'd be sitting at 73% instead.
A load doesn't have to be at least 500 miles to be profitable. They trick is to keep your acceptance high enough so that you can be all cherry picky when you want to. I turned down a load to Shreveport, and got a 1300 mile load to Pompano Beach instead. I'd really hate to think that I had placed myself in a position where I HAD to take that load to Shreveport in order to remain above 67%.
If you are "forced" to take whatever they send your way, because you are at or below 67%, then you are forcing yourself to take it. They carrier is not forcing you to take it, as you can still turn it down. But it's a situation you got yourself into, by your own actions. There are exceptions, of course, but generally speaking when someone is below 67% it is because they are cherry picking, and have turned down loads that are profitable, it's just that they weren't primo loads with the kind of miles the O/O wants.
I'm usually in the 95% to 100% acceptance range, but I do turn down most of the loads that don't count as a refusal (more than 8 hours, more than 40% deadhead, etc). I turned down a load last week that was profitable for most people, including me. 12 miles deadhead, 187 miles, paid $1.07 per mile. It went from Dallas to Shreveport, but I had just spent the previous Friday-thru-Monday in Shreveport and finally got a load to Dallas. Then one from Houston to northeast Arkansas, and then one right back down to Dallas. I didn't want to go right back to Shreveport to end up sitting for a week or having to deadhead back to Dallas or up to Memphis or something, so I figured I'd wait it out for something better.
If I spend a lot of time in Midwest Hell my acceptance rate drops for the same kinds of reasons. A short load going to a place where there are 4 times as many vans as loads just so I can sit 2 or 3 days just to get another load going to an identical situation. No thanks, I'll pass.
The key is to know the rules of the game so you can use them to your advantage, to know when you should and should not turn down loads. You have to know how the acceptance is calculated. It's all of the previous calendar month plus the days of the current month.
Let's say it's the last week of June, so you acceptance is calculated using all of May plus all of the days so far in June. In May you had 12 load offers and you took 10 of them. So far in June you have had 11 load offers and you have turned down three of them. You're 18 of 23 in acceptance, for 78% acceptance. Another crappy load comes in and you turn it down, you drop to 75% acceptance, no big deal. Right? Wrong. Two days later you still haven't gotten another load offer and now it's July 1 and all of May drops off the backend, so now you have all of June and the one day in July. You are now 7 for 11 in acceptance for 64% and you just screwed yourself by turning down that last load (or one of the other three in June that were profitable, just not primo). If you'd have turned down three instead of 4 in June, you'd be sitting at 73% instead.
A load doesn't have to be at least 500 miles to be profitable. They trick is to keep your acceptance high enough so that you can be all cherry picky when you want to. I turned down a load to Shreveport, and got a 1300 mile load to Pompano Beach instead. I'd really hate to think that I had placed myself in a position where I HAD to take that load to Shreveport in order to remain above 67%.
It's not "forced dispatch" simply because they won't do things to suit you. If you only want to take 1 in 4 offers then you are of limited use to the carrier, and they will use you accordingly. The only thing you are forced to do is accept, or reject, a load offer. There are consequences for either decision.
Like I said, it would be nice if you can pick and choose only those loads you like, and you can do that if you have your own authority, but you are limited in how picky you can be when you have leased your equipment to a carrier. But being limited in those choices does not make it forced. You will not be able to mold the carrier to fit your needs, wants and desires. You have to mold yours to fit the carrier, or find a carrier who's needs are the best fit with your own.
Like I said, it would be nice if you can pick and choose only those loads you like, and you can do that if you have your own authority, but you are limited in how picky you can be when you have leased your equipment to a carrier. But being limited in those choices does not make it forced. You will not be able to mold the carrier to fit your needs, wants and desires. You have to mold yours to fit the carrier, or find a carrier who's needs are the best fit with your own.
miguy1957
Expert Expediter
I think you mis read. If you turn down more than 1 in 4 or 2 in 7 load offers you would be less than 67% You seem to think that is a good Idea. It didnt use to be that way. I dont know about you but it has shrunk my bottom line. Now I run more loads with more deadhead to Net the same as I did. OK its not being forced but if you fall below 67% you have to sit untill the numbers reset or find another carrier. The only way it is forced is if they put a gun to your head LOL.
Please don't read more into what I say than what I say. No, I don't think it's a good idea. I don't think it's a bad idea, either. I think it is what it is, and it's necessary for Panther. Looking at it from Panther's point of view, I can at least understand it. They have loads to cover, and most expedite loads are 300 miles or less. They can't have a fleet of trucks where most of them turn down most of the loads.
I do know that when they implemented the 67% thing, they had a significant percentage (nearly half) of cargo vans who were sitting at or below 50%, many were below 30% acceptance, with about a third of those being at less than 15%. Granted, a lot of that was (and still is) Panther's own doing, as they cater to fleet owners and not to O/Os who drive their own vans and trucks.
Driving a van for a fleet owner, which is the bulk of Panther's van fleet, you cannot make any money taking loads under 500 miles if you have to split the revenue with the owner. It is literally not worth the time and effort to run a 250 mile load for $115 gross revenue plus FSC to the driver. It would be fine if you could do 3 or 4 of those a day, but that's never gonna happen when you deliver and find yourself 19th on a 4-a-day board just so you can sit for another 2-4 days and get another 250 mile run. And Panther wonders why their turnover rate is so high. <snort>
No, they didn't used to do the 67% thing, but that's when they had most of the fleet sitting around and cherry picking at less than 50% acceptance. That's also when you dropped to the bottom of the board when you turned down a load. Talk about yer forced dispatch, that was it.
Nothing quite like delivering Detroit at 27 on the board, sit two days and get a crappy 110 mile load Saginaw so you can sit for another two days at 15 on the board. OR, drop back down to 27 on the Detroit board for turning down that load to Saginaw so you can sit another 2 or 3 days.
You have to accumulate a fair number of refusals to get to 67%, generally speaking, but to punish you on a load-by-basis for turning a load down is forced dispatch, plain and simple, and someone pushed the issue and they changed that policy.
There are several types of loads where a refusal doesn't count against you. I turn most of those down. Getting paid deadhead helps with the "more than 40% deadhead" loads tho, that I would have turned down before. Many of those are now profitable, depending on where they deliver.
I do know that when they implemented the 67% thing, they had a significant percentage (nearly half) of cargo vans who were sitting at or below 50%, many were below 30% acceptance, with about a third of those being at less than 15%. Granted, a lot of that was (and still is) Panther's own doing, as they cater to fleet owners and not to O/Os who drive their own vans and trucks.
Driving a van for a fleet owner, which is the bulk of Panther's van fleet, you cannot make any money taking loads under 500 miles if you have to split the revenue with the owner. It is literally not worth the time and effort to run a 250 mile load for $115 gross revenue plus FSC to the driver. It would be fine if you could do 3 or 4 of those a day, but that's never gonna happen when you deliver and find yourself 19th on a 4-a-day board just so you can sit for another 2-4 days and get another 250 mile run. And Panther wonders why their turnover rate is so high. <snort>
No, they didn't used to do the 67% thing, but that's when they had most of the fleet sitting around and cherry picking at less than 50% acceptance. That's also when you dropped to the bottom of the board when you turned down a load. Talk about yer forced dispatch, that was it.
Nothing quite like delivering Detroit at 27 on the board, sit two days and get a crappy 110 mile load Saginaw so you can sit for another two days at 15 on the board. OR, drop back down to 27 on the Detroit board for turning down that load to Saginaw so you can sit another 2 or 3 days.
You have to accumulate a fair number of refusals to get to 67%, generally speaking, but to punish you on a load-by-basis for turning a load down is forced dispatch, plain and simple, and someone pushed the issue and they changed that policy.
There are several types of loads where a refusal doesn't count against you. I turn most of those down. Getting paid deadhead helps with the "more than 40% deadhead" loads tho, that I would have turned down before. Many of those are now profitable, depending on where they deliver.
Im sorry to inform you it is no longer 67 % its 73 % i guess youall didnt get the message either i was on home time when it was sent out didnt see it .refuse one crap load and your down 2 crap loads your under 65 % forced dispatch no matter how you look at it like i said next they will tell you you to buy uniforms and thats when the s#$t hit the fan w/ fed ex you are not independent any more its time to buy your own authority and do what you want
It is no longer 1 in 4 the new rule is 73% more like 1 in 1.75 loads if you are not one of the chosen and we all know what that means,if you are on the bottom of the list you will be offered the short hauls and as acontractor not an owner and your working on a % you cannot make any money you only cover your fuel if thats in your part of it, we all know there are certain trucks that do not even get offered these loads so they dont have to worry about there % going down, this i know because ive talked to a few of the lose liped ones you know the ones that have owners thatgo fishin with s.k. Or one of the dispatchers its not a secretit happens every where kick bac and so on like i said. If the company would quit taking these crap loads it will eventually put the other companys out.
miguy1957
Expert Expediter
Who and when did someone tell you that??
found out yesterday when i noticed that i was getting knocked down the board i called ,was told that 73% is now the new 67% and the dispatcher actually said its forced dispatch you can call and they will tell ya i guess some of the older people didnt know either.
No, I didn't get the message. It was apparently sent out in a fleet message a week or two ago, but it certainly should have gone out in an e-mail and been posted to the Website. Because of how it is calculated, it should have gone out prior to June 1, actually, since decisions made in June based on the old formula are now ex post facto part of the new formula. It's like putting up a stop sign today and giving you a ticket for running it last week.
I'll call on Tuesday to get a clarification, and maybe to get someone to send it out in an e-mail, hopefully they'll have the phones and computer fixed by then.
A few minutes ago someone in Driver Relations read me the e-mail that they got, which didn't say much, other than as of July 2, 2011 the cut-off for the acceptance rate is raised from 67% to 73%, and that Driver Relations should expect a lot of calls about it. The e-mail does not provide Driver Relations with any kind of explanation to offer the callers who have questions, however, which seems rather typical ("We've made this change, you're going to get a lot of calls about it. We're not going to explain to you why we've made these changes, so good luck with the calls. <snort>").
Doesn't take much to figure out why, tho. They started paying deadhead as an incentive to take more loads, which didn't help, so now they have to raise the acceptance rate to get more people to accept more loads, and so they can more concentrate the load offers to people who are most likely to accept them.
But it honestly doesn't affect me much. Even the girl in Driver Relations asked me why I was even concerned with it, seeing as how I don't turn much down ("you only turned down one load in June, and one in May!") It's a very rare thing for me to drop below 90%. But I was asking not because I'm concerned about it, but rather you can't play the game if you don't know the rules, especially if they change the rules without letting you know about it.
But it is, for sure, 73% now, and not 67%.
Again, it's calculated by using all of the days of the current month, and the previous calendar month. It's July 3, so you're dealing with the 3 days in July and all of June, with anything that happened before June 1 being out of the equation. It's loads accepted divided by loads offered. Legitimate refusals are not in the equation (e.g., more than 8 hours in advance is not counted as a load offered).
I'll call on Tuesday to get a clarification, and maybe to get someone to send it out in an e-mail, hopefully they'll have the phones and computer fixed by then.
A few minutes ago someone in Driver Relations read me the e-mail that they got, which didn't say much, other than as of July 2, 2011 the cut-off for the acceptance rate is raised from 67% to 73%, and that Driver Relations should expect a lot of calls about it. The e-mail does not provide Driver Relations with any kind of explanation to offer the callers who have questions, however, which seems rather typical ("We've made this change, you're going to get a lot of calls about it. We're not going to explain to you why we've made these changes, so good luck with the calls. <snort>").
Doesn't take much to figure out why, tho. They started paying deadhead as an incentive to take more loads, which didn't help, so now they have to raise the acceptance rate to get more people to accept more loads, and so they can more concentrate the load offers to people who are most likely to accept them.
But it honestly doesn't affect me much. Even the girl in Driver Relations asked me why I was even concerned with it, seeing as how I don't turn much down ("you only turned down one load in June, and one in May!") It's a very rare thing for me to drop below 90%. But I was asking not because I'm concerned about it, but rather you can't play the game if you don't know the rules, especially if they change the rules without letting you know about it.
But it is, for sure, 73% now, and not 67%.
Again, it's calculated by using all of the days of the current month, and the previous calendar month. It's July 3, so you're dealing with the 3 days in July and all of June, with anything that happened before June 1 being out of the equation. It's loads accepted divided by loads offered. Legitimate refusals are not in the equation (e.g., more than 8 hours in advance is not counted as a load offered).
Last edited:
At the point where you think like an employee. When they did the 67% thing I wasn't really happy about it, but as it turns out the prospect of falling below 67% only had an effect on one decision that I made since they started it, and that was an unusual situation where I had been off for 3 weeks and came back to nothing but one crappy load offer after another, and the 1st of the month was rapidly approaching. I have a feeling that it'll be about the same with the 73% where it's not gonna impact me all that much.
You (a general you, not a specific you) have to really understand what a profitable load is. If a profitable load can only be one that is 500 miles or more, then you should probably rethink your carrier choice, because you're gonna get a lot of load offers of less than that. You can turn them down, but there is a price to be paid for that. If you don't want to pay that price, find another carrier or get your own authority and do things any way you like. There are still plenty of loads that can be turned down within a 73% acceptance range. You just have to limit the refusals to loads that are actually unprofitable, rather than sitting back and cherry picking loads.
I'm not saying you are doing that, of course, and I don't think you are, but that's precisely what the 73% threshold is all about.