Cummings/DD/Hino/Mercedes
- Thread starter Tuckster
- Start date
Doggie Daddy
Veteran Expediter
You didn't list it, but we love our Cat C-9.DD.
I would gladly trade the mercedes for a cummins. Our Detroit series 60 have been amazing also. Cats have been solid and predictable. Did I say I would trade a Mercedes for a bicycle? Actually maybe even for a skateboard.
Hino has out-performed all of them for reliability and how Toyota has handled the one and only needed repair in 141,000 miles.
-charlotte
Hino has out-performed all of them for reliability and how Toyota has handled the one and only needed repair in 141,000 miles.
-charlotte
Last edited:
spudhead911
Seasoned Expediter
We have a Mercedes MBE 4000 series engine in my 2007 western Star, with a Eaton 10 speed Ultra Shift transmission. My wife and I both love the engine and tranny, we haven't had any problems with either of them, we have over 125,000 trouble free miles on the clock.
I would give the edge to Cummins followed by Cat. Both are just as durable, but the Cummins wins out because it is the cheapest to rebuild. On the other side, Cat has a better warranty. We have a C9 in one of our trucks and that warranty is 750,000.
Jury is still probably out on the Hino's. Haven't seen one to the five year mark in a OTR application.
Jury is still probably out on the Hino's. Haven't seen one to the five year mark in a OTR application.
I met a driver a few weeks ago with a new Hino (3-4 months old) asked him how he liked it. He said "it's fine except when going up hills, you can watch the fuel gauge go down"
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Hino?
They seem to be ok, drove one once wasn't impressed but again it is not about the truck anyway, it is about serviceability on and off the road.
This is not trashing one brand but I am going to use it as an example.
Great.... you got yourself a new nice shiny Hino, now what?
You topped 300k on the odometer and then things started to happen. You get stuck on the road and get towed to the nearest truck stop, they don't have filters and the nearest dealer is like 600 miles away. Now what?.....
Cummins seems to be the most inexpensive engine to have repaired. I can find Cummins parts easily and the ISC is well a good engine to own.
Cat comes in a far second. They have repair facilities all over the place, most of the heavy equipment people know how to work on Cat engines (or the ones I know do).
Mercedes has been making engines for a very very long time and they mass produced more than the others but they lack a dealer network. Like Volvo, they are good but when the problems pop up, service may be an issue.
Hino? I haven't seen the coverage with them yet. Maybe it is coming but not yet.
They seem to be ok, drove one once wasn't impressed but again it is not about the truck anyway, it is about serviceability on and off the road.
This is not trashing one brand but I am going to use it as an example.
Great.... you got yourself a new nice shiny Hino, now what?
You topped 300k on the odometer and then things started to happen. You get stuck on the road and get towed to the nearest truck stop, they don't have filters and the nearest dealer is like 600 miles away. Now what?.....
Cummins seems to be the most inexpensive engine to have repaired. I can find Cummins parts easily and the ISC is well a good engine to own.
Cat comes in a far second. They have repair facilities all over the place, most of the heavy equipment people know how to work on Cat engines (or the ones I know do).
Mercedes has been making engines for a very very long time and they mass produced more than the others but they lack a dealer network. Like Volvo, they are good but when the problems pop up, service may be an issue.
Hino? I haven't seen the coverage with them yet. Maybe it is coming but not yet.
EASYTRADER
Expert Expediter
We have 225000 miles on our Hino and have replaced an alternator and a turbo niether failure left us stranded. The turbo was replaced by a dealer who noticed a little oil around where the inter cooler hose attached
which he sais is a common warning sign of a bad bearing. As for the alternator it lasted as long as they normally do I think it crapped out at 190k.
our fuel mileage is 8.5 so I would wait untill the gearing issue is resolved before I buy another one. Churneys told me they are going to put a ten speed auto trannyy in them soon.
which he sais is a common warning sign of a bad bearing. As for the alternator it lasted as long as they normally do I think it crapped out at 190k.
our fuel mileage is 8.5 so I would wait untill the gearing issue is resolved before I buy another one. Churneys told me they are going to put a ten speed auto trannyy in them soon.
Jefferson3000
Expert Expediter
Well so far, no one has really mentioned anything about the Detroit engine. Like a DD 60 series. Any props? On a strictly class 8 level, how do the brands compare?
Jefferson3000
Expert Expediter
Just read an article somewhere about Hino debuting a class 8 back in 2007. Wait, I think now that it was a press release on Hino's website. Just city tractors right now, I believe. Don't know if I've ever seen one.
Cummins then Cat/Mercedes as far as engines I've had experience with and would choose if the option were available. That's based on combined factors of operating costs, service, etc. in expediting applications in straight trucks. Other uses may or may not have the same results.
MB 4000, is the only motor we have experience with as expediters.
After 140,000 miles, no problems, plenty of power and torque.
Economy, mpg runs around 10. We have 10 speed auto with it in
Frtliner Columbia Dr unit.
I like it.
After 140,000 miles, no problems, plenty of power and torque.
Economy, mpg runs around 10. We have 10 speed auto with it in
Frtliner Columbia Dr unit.
I like it.
D Team Brothers
Expert Expediter
cummins ISX in two trucks and love both engines. New 08 Mercedes, 4000 in our Western Star and had nothing but trouble for the first 70,000. Out of service over 14 days total. Now seems ok, but fuel milage is always below 9. We're told that it will stay that way regardless because of the new pollution gear on the engine.
When you consider an engine all you should care about is TOTAL cost of ownership.
1 Fuel economy, you won't spend more on anything else than fuel. Think that 2/10ths of a MPG isn't important over the 4 or 5 year life of the truck? If you didn't answer yes......
2 Maintenance. How much oil does it need? How expensive are the filters? How often do you need to service it? Does it need any other special maintenance more often than the other guy (valve set, emission control parts that need replaced etc.)
3 Cost to put a particular brand in a truck. Sure brand x offers a great warranty and the service is good, but if it adds 5 grand to the cost of the truck are you going to get it back? IF you said yes, are you prepared to incur the downtime? If you think your going to need 5 grand of warranty work done in the 5 year life thats a crapload of downtime that isn't free. If you think that it will save you that much in fuel or cost of re-build (if you keep it that long), different story.
4 Cost to re-build, if you've decided that keeping your truck for 10 years is a smart idea, are you going to have to do an inframe? Don't ask the sales guy how much it will cost, go ask at another dealer.
5 On road support, all the warranty in the world won't help you if you are in Buttmunch Idaho and the closest dealer is east of the Mississippi.
6 Parts availability, OK so there is a dealer in Buttmunch, but if the water pump has to come in from Lower Uzebekistan your going to get awful tired of the food at the only restaurant that Buttmunch has. And, if you think your safe on this one because you have a common brand of engine, how common is the model? Water pumps for a 15 liter might grow on trees but you have a 12 liter. Tired of the buffet yet?
7 Performance, sure is a long way down the list isn't it? It has a lot more to do with how the truck is spec'd and your driving than anything else. It is important....because it affects number 1. If you end up driving it a gear down because it feels gutless in the top cog, say goodbye to fuel economy. Some say horsepower only costs you if you use it. True if you are 100 % super duper professional driver all the time. How many of you are that perfect? I see one hand, and I'm sure he's not super human like he says. For those of us in the real world, the 600 hp engine will almost always cost you more in fuel (notice I didn't say MPG) than the 400 hp engine.
8 Resale Value. If you are going to turn your truck in fairly frequently (less than 4 years) it might fetch you more if you have a "popular" engine, but if your going to be 10 years out, the difference between a 600 hp monster and a Briggs and Stratton ain't going to amount to much and besides, who did you buy the truck for? Yourself or the guy you're going to sell it to? The resale argument is pretty weak these days, as fast as technology changes so do peoples preferences. What is popular in resale today likely won't be in 4 years.
I'm reasonably feisty tonight folks so I welcome your comments!!
By the way, there are some big fleets that don't get it right, nobody gets a hole in one every time out. No one can spec a perfect truck, there are always trade off's you have to make. The important thing is to at least make sure you've thought it out, not made your choice based on emotion or what you heard on the CB.
1 Fuel economy, you won't spend more on anything else than fuel. Think that 2/10ths of a MPG isn't important over the 4 or 5 year life of the truck? If you didn't answer yes......
2 Maintenance. How much oil does it need? How expensive are the filters? How often do you need to service it? Does it need any other special maintenance more often than the other guy (valve set, emission control parts that need replaced etc.)
3 Cost to put a particular brand in a truck. Sure brand x offers a great warranty and the service is good, but if it adds 5 grand to the cost of the truck are you going to get it back? IF you said yes, are you prepared to incur the downtime? If you think your going to need 5 grand of warranty work done in the 5 year life thats a crapload of downtime that isn't free. If you think that it will save you that much in fuel or cost of re-build (if you keep it that long), different story.
4 Cost to re-build, if you've decided that keeping your truck for 10 years is a smart idea, are you going to have to do an inframe? Don't ask the sales guy how much it will cost, go ask at another dealer.
5 On road support, all the warranty in the world won't help you if you are in Buttmunch Idaho and the closest dealer is east of the Mississippi.
6 Parts availability, OK so there is a dealer in Buttmunch, but if the water pump has to come in from Lower Uzebekistan your going to get awful tired of the food at the only restaurant that Buttmunch has. And, if you think your safe on this one because you have a common brand of engine, how common is the model? Water pumps for a 15 liter might grow on trees but you have a 12 liter. Tired of the buffet yet?
7 Performance, sure is a long way down the list isn't it? It has a lot more to do with how the truck is spec'd and your driving than anything else. It is important....because it affects number 1. If you end up driving it a gear down because it feels gutless in the top cog, say goodbye to fuel economy. Some say horsepower only costs you if you use it. True if you are 100 % super duper professional driver all the time. How many of you are that perfect? I see one hand, and I'm sure he's not super human like he says. For those of us in the real world, the 600 hp engine will almost always cost you more in fuel (notice I didn't say MPG) than the 400 hp engine.
8 Resale Value. If you are going to turn your truck in fairly frequently (less than 4 years) it might fetch you more if you have a "popular" engine, but if your going to be 10 years out, the difference between a 600 hp monster and a Briggs and Stratton ain't going to amount to much and besides, who did you buy the truck for? Yourself or the guy you're going to sell it to? The resale argument is pretty weak these days, as fast as technology changes so do peoples preferences. What is popular in resale today likely won't be in 4 years.
I'm reasonably feisty tonight folks so I welcome your comments!!
By the way, there are some big fleets that don't get it right, nobody gets a hole in one every time out. No one can spec a perfect truck, there are always trade off's you have to make. The important thing is to at least make sure you've thought it out, not made your choice based on emotion or what you heard on the CB.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK here's a comment, What?
TOTAL cost of ownership?
I haven't heard that term used in a long time. It seems to me that it was used a lot in IT to justify things.
Opps...... My God...... I better shut up or the ROI crowd will chime in to explain it to us.
Hino has a decent network now.....and their towing coverage is to the closest Hino repair facilty, no matter the distance. Did you know that the MHC chain (Kenworth Dealers) are all now HIno dealers also?
DD 60 is IMO the best class 8 engine we have had. Much better fuel mileage than the cats and we have plenty of power. Repairs in 450,000 miles on our 05 = 2 ac compressors. PLus the truck is under warranty till 550,000 miles. The DD 60 rebuild is WAY cheaper than a CAT and has a better warranty with it also.
-charlotte
DD 60 is IMO the best class 8 engine we have had. Much better fuel mileage than the cats and we have plenty of power. Repairs in 450,000 miles on our 05 = 2 ac compressors. PLus the truck is under warranty till 550,000 miles. The DD 60 rebuild is WAY cheaper than a CAT and has a better warranty with it also.
-charlotte