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Blown Engine too

truckerlife

Rookie Expediter
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Had a mechanic in CA rebuild & replace a turbo & it went out on me after only 4 days on the road--at exit 100 I-40 CA. CA mechanic sent a new turbo out to a different mobile mechanic out in AZ to replace the turbo. After mobile mech finish replacing the turbo the engine turned on & it "ran away" and stalled. Had the ruck towed back to mobile mechanic shop, in AZ, to have it further looked at. Called them for 2 days then final got a response saying they dont work on Detroit engines. Had the truck towed back to CA & got a repair estimate for over $12,000 for a inframe engine overhaul. CA mechanic is telling me a injector tip caused the engine to "run" on me. Who is responsible for the damages? The CA mechanic or the AZ mechanic? Any advice would be appreciated
 

paullud

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The person responsible for the $12k is you.

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RETIDEPXE

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Run away stories have always made me uneasy, my turbo has 800k mi.s, ticking time bomb? Can an injector cause a run away? The fact that a turbo was just installed is suspect. If the turbo caused the run away, wouldn't the crankcase oil would be gone for the most part and the intake hoses and air-to-air would be oil coated inside? Maybe have an independent tech look at it and get their opinion on the cause.

I would be curious how long the engine ran before stalling. My paranoia of a run away caused me to purchase a hand saw (or rather I dreamed it up and lo and behold there was a saw in the Wally World red tag section on sale) with wicked looking teeth with the theory of having enough time after detecting run away to saw thru the intake hose and stop the flow of oil to the intake. Am I crazy to think this might work? I'm going to paint "run away tool" on it so the DOT doesn't see it as a weapon and conduct run away drills just in case......yeah, I'm leaning towards crazy.
 

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davekc

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Never heard of a bad injector tip causing a engine to run away. A engine will run away because of the turbo. Just cut or pull the oil line to the turbo. Cutting the air would work to but might be harder to do.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
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Never heard of a bad injector tip causing a engine to run away. A engine will run away because of the turbo. Just cut or pull the oil line to the turbo. Cutting the air would work to but might be harder to do.
I dunno ... I'd think it would be easier to pull the intake hose off than to pull or cut the oil line to the turbo ...

The oil feed line to the turbo on my Sprinter is steel and secured to the turbo with a banjo bolt ... and it's not all that accessible ... although if one had just replaced the turbo ... :rolleyes:

On the other hand the hose going to the intake manifold from the intercooler is easily accessible and is secured by a single wire clip .... that can be popped off with a screwdriver or similar ...
 

guido4475

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Why not just stop the flow of air? Garbage can lid comes to mind .. ;)
I once used my clipboard to put over the air intake on a drivers truck in the parking lot when his started doing that, killing the engine quick, saving it.
 

RETIDEPXE

Veteran Expediter
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I once used my clipboard to put over the air intake on a drivers truck in the parking lot when his started doing that, killing the engine quick, saving it.
Way to go Guido, probably saved the guy $20,000. I like this idea, easy and quick. I don't think the top of my M2's breather is flat enough for this but I'm thinking keep one of my heavy vinyl window covers handy and possibly choke it at the hood opening, and this doesn't work, raise the hood and throw it over the breather. Great info, now I feel a little more at ease.
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
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Run away engines are not the norm ... however .... a Detroit 318, 2 cyl engine .. it was not uncommon!

Nor was the engine running "backwards" ... what a mess that was.

Ok, I'm carbon dating myself here, huh? :rolleyes:
 

davekc

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Don't know on a Sprinter, but on many trucks you would need two clipboards to cut the air off. The air intake on top of the air filter holder and one to cut off the air charger.
Or...pull the air filter and try to cut the air off that way.
I would still go for the oil line. Even if you damage it, it isn't like you are going to drive away until it is fixed.
 

aquitted

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I watched A couple of detroit mechanics scramble to cut the fuel line to the injector pump to keep it from blowing itself up. the engine was A detroit 8V92 silver series.
They say the older 60 series had A habit of throwing A rod right thru the block without any warning.
 
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highway star

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Run away engines are not the norm ... however .... a Detroit 318, 2 cyl engine .. it was not uncommon!

Nor was the engine running "backwards" ... what a mess that was.

Ok, I'm carbon dating myself here, huh? :rolleyes:
We could just pretend we don't remember 238s and 318s, and maybe we'd at least feel a little younger.
 

TruckingSurv

Seasoned Expediter
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We could just pretend we don't remember 238s and 318s, and maybe we'd at least feel a little younger.
I feel fairly young and I can remember :) Not only can I remember, I have driven an old GMC "Cannonball" truck with a 6-71. Sounded mean, but not much power, we used it to haul dozers from job site to job site, mostly forest roads, I remember one night running out of power and stalling it, it immediately started to roll backwards (no spring brakes to set on that old of truck) and trying to start in reverse, scared me for a few minutes. Same engine in some of the dozers of the era, those all had BOTH a fuel and air shutoff that was manually activated. It would seem a good idea to still have an air shutoff tied to turning the key off on any diesel engine vehicle.


TS
 

BobWolf

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I know diesels dont have throtle plates. What causes a runaway in the first place?
 

RETIDEPXE

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I know diesels dont have throtle plates. What causes a runaway in the first place?
It's my understanding a runaway occurs when the turbo blows an oil seal causing the oil to spray into the intake air stream. The hydraulic pressure (oil pressure) overcomes the boost pressure and feeds thru the air-to-air uncontrolled and into the combustion chambers and runs off the oil until depleted, and at an uncontrolled high rpm. Catch it fast enough and choke off the oil and/or and it might save you or your fleet owner big bucks.

My theory is a turbo seal is more likely to blow under extreme high pressures. I contribute the longevity of my turbo to warming the motor for a time before taking off. Expedite loads do not always cater to this but a 10 to 15 minute warmup is all it takes, especially in the colder climates. I think we will see more of this as more drivers forgo the idling while sitting.

my drop in the change drawer.
 

Doggie Daddy

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The only times I have seen runaway diesels was in the army in Viet Nam.

Our company had several M-88 tank recovery vehicles, and when the engines needed repair they would pull the entire pack (engine and trans) and set them on the floor to repair them .

Before returning them to the tank they would test run them sitting loose on the floor. Sometimes these massive V-12 twin turbo engines would runaway. I recall when it happened that one brave (crazy) mechanic would run up and use a piece of flat metal to block the air inlet and kill the engine.






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TruckingSurv

Seasoned Expediter
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I know diesels dont have throtle plates. What causes a runaway in the first place?
Uncontrolled fueling, typically from a turbo failure introducing lube oil into the intake as already mentioned, however it could also be a failure in the injection system also causing un-metered diesel fuel to the engine too. Really any source of combustible fuel that you can't control. In the oil and gas fields, there are sometimes vapors in the air that could cause a runaway too. On the old two stroke Detroit's, sometimes the mechanical injection (the rack) would get stuck wide open. In all cases if you can block the air intake, then the fire goes out, you need fuel, oxygen and heat to create fire, take away any one and the fire goes out. Easiest to probably eliminate is the oxygen in a runaway engine since you don't necessarily know where the fuel source is in an emergency situation.

TS
 

Deville

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It's my understanding a runaway occurs when the turbo blows an oil seal causing the oil to spray into the intake air stream. The hydraulic pressure (oil pressure) overcomes the boost pressure and feeds thru the air-to-air uncontrolled and into the combustion chambers and runs off the oil until depleted, and at an uncontrolled high rpm. Catch it fast enough and choke off the oil and/or and it might save you or your fleet owner big bucks.

My theory is a turbo seal is more likely to blow under extreme high pressures. I contribute the longevity of my turbo to warming the motor for a time before taking off. Expedite loads do not always cater to this but a 10 to 15 minute warmup is all it takes, especially in the colder climates. I think we will see more of this as more drivers forgo the idling while sitting.

my drop in the change drawer.
I don't know it it helps, but warm, or cold I always let my motor warm up a bit from 10 mins to a half hour.

A friend of mine had a runaway on a 2002 Cat 3126 it only had 145,000 miles on it & over 1200 hours. It should have been under warrenty the truck wasn't even 5 years old yet. Cat refused to cover it citing it was over the hours for warrenty. $14,000 for a rebuild.

That truck was run very hard than & continues to be ran hard now.
 

BobWolf

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O.K. That makes sense I was going to ask if he had installed a power adder like a chip or propane.
Had me an F.N.G. moment trying to figire out how the turbo would cause that. I would not recomend anyone to rebuild a turbo as they are built to VERRY close tolorances.
Sorry to hear of youre issue.
 
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