Another waste of tax dollars

bobwg

Expert Expediter
New York City to spend hundreds of thousands dollars to change street signs because of some stupid federal bill slipped into another bill that says street signs cannot use all upper case letters must use upper case for the first letter and then lower case for the rest of the sign and this will force other cities and towns across the country to change signs as well like to know who is the moron that thought this law up.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
How does the feds control the signage laws of a state?


The same way they are going to control health care, guns, etc etc etc. It is easy when you have no Constitution to control your actions. Dictators have NO problems. Being a dictator is Barry's dream. State no longer have rights. They have not for a VERY long time. We have very few left and are handing them over willy nilly. We will soon be the "Land of the ruled and the home of the wimps"
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well, it wasn't really a "stupid federal bill slipped into another bill", it was a straight up regulation change by the DOT and it's fearless leader Ray La Hood, based on numerous independent studies that showed upper/lower case signs were more readable. This was put in place in 2003 when the Federal Highway Department updated it's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD, which is also online). There's a 15-year time period to get it done by 2018.

Yes, it costs $110 to replace each sign, and NYC has 250,900 street signs, so that means it's gonna cost $27.6 million.

OMG! How stupid. The outrage! NY State tax payers should rise up in revolt!

Oh, yeah, BTW, they routinely replace 8000 signs a year anyway due to wear and tear. So now they'll simply be replacing them with more readable signs with a more readable font and a more uniform reflective protective covering that should make them last longer between replacements.

This isn't just for NYC, tho, it's for all states.

The Clearview typeface was developed by an interdisciplinary team that included traffic engineers, optics engineers, vision experts, type designers, graphic designers and perceptual psychologists. The current Standard Highway Signs (SHS) typefaces date back to 1949 and have their origins in traditional, handmade-by-stencil-and-paintbrush signs.

Compared to SHS Standard Alphabets (Highway Gothic), Clearview provides faster word recognition at increased distances, improved legibility in the same sign footprint, and reduced halo-ing (or overglow) that happens when headlights hit the reflective signs directly causing them to be so bright that they are not very readable. With a 20 percent improvement in legibility and recognition distance over the 50-year-old Highway Gothic font, the new Clearview typeface gives drivers as much as two seconds of additional reaction time.

The new Clearview font has already been in widespread use by state departments of transportation in Arkansas, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Virginia, among others. In Canada, the Ministry of Transportation for the Province of British Columbia specifies Clearview for use on its highway guide signs, and its usage has shown up in Ontario on the Don Valley Parkway and Gardiner Expressway in Toronto, and on new 400 series highways in Hamilton, Halton and Niagra. as well as street signs in various parts of the province. The font is also being used on new signs in Alberta, Manitoba and Quebec.

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xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I had read about this and then started noticing how most signs along our interstate system are in all caps.

Just another case of government money being spent on studies for something that was never needed in the first place.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Turtle,
It really does not matter at this point, either the person driving can't read, or depend on some device to tell them where to turn. :D
 

bobwg

Expert Expediter
Well, it wasn't really a "stupid federal bill slipped into another bill", it was a straight up regulation change by the DOT and it's fearless leader Ray La Hood, based on numerous independent studies that showed upper/lower case signs were more readable. This was put in place in 2003 when the Federal Highway Department updated it's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD, which is also online). There's a 15-year time period to get it done by 2018.

Yes, it costs $110 to replace each sign, and NYC has 250,900 street signs, so that means it's gonna cost $27.6 million.

OMG! How stupid. The outrage! NY State tax payers should rise up in revolt!

Oh, yeah, BTW, they routinely replace 8000 signs a year anyway due to wear and tear. So now they'll simply be replacing them with more readable signs with a more readable font and a more uniform reflective protective covering that should make them last longer between replacements.

This isn't just for NYC, tho, it's for all states.

The Clearview typeface was developed by an interdisciplinary team that included traffic engineers, optics engineers, vision experts, type designers, graphic designers and perceptual psychologists. The current Standard Highway Signs (SHS) typefaces date back to 1949 and have their origins in traditional, handmade-by-stencil-and-paintbrush signs.

Compared to SHS Standard Alphabets (Highway Gothic), Clearview provides faster word recognition at increased distances, improved legibility in the same sign footprint, and reduced halo-ing (or overglow) that happens when headlights hit the reflective signs directly causing them to be so bright that they are not very readable. With a 20 percent improvement in legibility and recognition distance over the 50-year-old Highway Gothic font, the new Clearview typeface gives drivers as much as two seconds of additional reaction time.

The new Clearview font has already been in widespread use by state departments of transportation in Arkansas, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Virginia, among others. In Canada, the Ministry of Transportation for the Province of British Columbia specifies Clearview for use on its highway guide signs, and its usage has shown up in Ontario on the Don Valley Parkway and Gardiner Expressway in Toronto, and on new 400 series highways in Hamilton, Halton and Niagra. as well as street signs in various parts of the province. The font is also being used on new signs in Alberta, Manitoba and Quebec.

overglow.gif

ok sorry got the bil/law part wrong but its still a waste of money how many years have the signs been in upper case geez just think of it millions or maybe billions of signs across America will have to be changed to meet this moron regulation
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
My point was, and I guess I really didn't make it very clear (clear, get it? clear?) is that street and highway signs are built to standards, which change every now and then. The standards are in place for what I hope are obvious reasons, and the Federal Highway Administration is the one that sets the standards for all roadways, for what I also hope are obvious reasons.

As for the street signs themselves, I'm not positive, but I think I remember reading that towns below a certain population or traffic threshold can go off-book and create their own unique signs, but only for the street names.

But yeah, with a GPS unit, who needs signs?

Issue every vehicle license holder a GPS unit and save a lot of money in street signs. Can you imagine? lol
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
ok sorry got the bil/law part wrong but its still a waste of money how many years have the signs been in upper case geez just think of it millions or maybe billions of signs across America will have to be changed to meet this moron regulation
You didn't actually read what I posted, apparently.

THEY GET CHANGED OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS ANYWAY.

Millions or maybe billions of signs across America are already going to be replaced even if the new regulations weren't in place. This new regulations simply change what the replacement signs that would have been replaced anyway will look like. It won't increase the cost of the signs at all, since sign replacement is already a part of the budget for the states and cities affected.

So now, next time a street sign gets changed out, it'll simply be changed out with a new typeface that more people, especially old farts like me, can more easily read from a farther distance.

I remember it wasn't all that long ago (well, OK, like 40 years) when most street name signs were black lettering on a white background, often with a black border around the sign. The Uniform Traffic Control Device standards changed that. Now it's being changed again. What's the big deal? It it because this moronic regulation that doesn't cost anyone any more money than they are already spending on street signs will make the streets safer?
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You didn't actually read what I posted, apparently.
Possibly because some media source told the OP what to think about the issue .... as opposed to being just presenting (all) the facts regarding it

And when the what one is told coincides with how an individual is inclined anyways ..... well, it's a deady combination .... and no need for additional, relevant data ..... :rolleyes:

Happens often with much of the news media (and, unfortunately, the viewers .... ;))

THEY GET CHANGED OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS ANYWAY.
But ...... but .... but .... you don't understand .... waste .... millions ..... Feds ..... White Horse ...... regulations ..... Constitution ..... billions ..... Communist Chinese .... terrorists ..... Hindenburg Omen .... hanging by a thread .....

Sorta reminds me of that Billy Joel song: We Didn't Start The Fire:

Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnnie Ray
South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio

Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, television
North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe

Rosenbergs, H-Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, "The King and I", and "The Catcher in the Rye"

Eisenhower, vaccine, England's got a new queen
Marciano, Liberace, Santayana goodbye

CHORUS
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it


Josef Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser and Prokofiev
Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bloc

Roy Cohn, Juan Peron, Toscanini, Dacron
Dien Bien Phu Falls, Rock Around the Clock

Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team
Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland

Bardot, Budapest, Alabama, Khrushchev
Princess Grace, Peyton Place, Trouble in the Suez

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouac
Sputnik, Zhou Enlai, Bridge On The River Kwai

Lebanon, Charles de Gaulle, California Baseball,
Starkweather homicide, Children of Thalidomide

Buddy Holly, Ben Hur, Space Monkey, Mafia
Hula Hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go

U2, Syngman Rhee, payola and Kennedy
Chubby Checker, Psycho, Belgians in the Congo

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

Hemingway, Eichmann, Stranger in a Strange Land,
Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion

Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania
Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson

Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician sex
J.F.K. blown away, what else do I have to say

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

Birth control, Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again
Moonshot, Woodstock, Watergate, punk rock

Begin, Reagan, Palestine, Terror on the airline
Ayatollah's in Iran, Russians in Afghanistan

Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal suicide
Foreign debts, homeless Vets, AIDS, Crack, Bernie Goetz

Hypodermics on the shores, China's under martial law
Rock and Roller cola wars, I can't take it anymore

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning since the world's been turning.
We didn't start the fire
But when we are gone
It will still burn on, and on, and on, and on...

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire...
 
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