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2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New unit

garman351

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We have been looking at new Hino's going on a month now and have a couple of dealers looking for our business, after we weeded out a couple of dealers.

We were asked to drive home a new 2007 Hino 338 6-speed manual trans
over the Labor day holiday's. So we could drive it and get a feel for it.

We are very concerned how low this thing is geard going down the freeway as follows,
55Mph = 1,900 Rpm's
70Mph = 2,600 Rpm's (Wide Open)
How can we expect this thing to last several hundred thousand miles before it is totally worn out.

Our Freight Liner FL70 250HP 6-speed goes as follows,
55Mph = 1,500 Rpm's
70Mph = 2,000 Rpm's

My current dealer has never addressed this problem with me, but I was told by the salesman they are adding another double over drive in the automatic's, because they are only a five speed.

I have been told some dealers are putting in a higher gear to resolve this problem working with Toyoto, and I have heard Toyoto will void the warranty if they do.

If the gear is changed so it will run around 1,900 to 2,000 Rpm's at 70Mph going down the freeway, I wonder if it will have enough low end torque to haul a heavy load, "I have my doubts."

(The funny thing is) The only bad reports back from any Hino owners or drivers are, they complain about bad Mpg in the automatices only. No engine problems etc. Am I going nuts here or what is going on with these things. Everybody wants to buy them, but I never have heard any complaints about these trucks not being up to the task for an over the raod truck.

Is it the three year warranty, and the best interest rates available that draws people to these things to over look a serious problem that needs to be addressed with the gearing issues I keep hearing about.

Some complain about anly 260Hp,our Frieght Liner is only 250Hp and has done a wondeful job.

garman351


:'(
 

greg334

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Why would Toyota void a warranty for a dealer change? There is a law that protects the owner of the vehicle called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I am pretty sure that commerical vehicles are also covered.

I am wondering what is the bottom of the fuel consumption curve? normally that is also the peak of the torque curve. Please correct me if I am wrong but that is where you want to set the engine speed for a given road speed say 65 MPH.
 
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LDB

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

I'm one of the somewhat skeptical. What is the torque of your FL? While it's 250hp it may have more torque than the Hino which is 260/585. The engine speed vs. road speed is one of the things that concerns me as a potential buyer. With a top speed of only 74mph you know it's going to be screaming running 70 and will have very little reserve. On the flip side, there's little reason to run over 65mph but even that will still be high revs. I believe the 36mo unlimited miles powertrain warranty is what helps people consider the Hino.

As mentioned, Magnusson Moss protects you against the warranty being voided other than for specific items that can be proven to require service due to a change made to the vehicle. Without proof that a specific modification caused the failure all parts must be warrantied.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

RichM

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

I think what it boils down to is that Hino is looking to sell trucks for local and regional deliveries. They want acceleration but do not care about top end. Expediting and highway operations are not considered in their warranties or truck issues.

A Cummins ISC will run forever at 65 MPH with no strain, but will take you a while to get there while the Hino will get you there but blow up maintaining that speed.
 

Prarysun

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Garman, geez you got me worried now! Just signed the paperwork on the new Hino automatic, Am going to check on that Magnuson-Moss Act to see if the warranty will be okay. I am very happy with the deal I made but you said you tested one and it ran 2600rpm's at 70mph?? That IS high! My freightliner did 2k rpms at that speed. Hmmmmn. I will check and see and I still have time to at least change to a 6 speed although was anxious to try an automatic. Will let you know what I find out. Yes the warranty and some comments from Hino owners sold me on the truck and heard some long history behind the Hino. I spoke with a fellow who owns one and loves it although he knows a woman who had the gears changed to a 4.something and she was very happy and gained the power she needed and increased her mpg to nearly 13mpg. Course this is 3rd party info assuming it is all true. Will let you know what I find out. Thanks.....
 

RobA

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Sorry; I can't believe that Toyota, which is looking to build market for these trucks, would permit their dealer to make an adjustment that would void the warranty.
That's not the Toyota way.
Has anyone contacted HINO or Toyota USA about these issues?
When Toyota brings a new vehicle or product on stream they want to know any and all concerns the buyer might have.
Toyota's Motto is

KAIZEN which means

CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT.

That more than anything else is how Toyota is blowing the domestics out of the water. No "Quality is Job One" BS with them; they mean what they say.
I'm sure there are engineers in Toyota that would be more than happy to address customer concerns.



>My current dealer has never addressed this problem with me,
>but I was told by the salesman they are adding another
>double over drive in the automatic's, because they are only
>a five speed.
>
>I have been told some dealers are putting in a higher gear
>to resolve this problem working with Toyoto, and I have
>heard Toyoto will void the warranty if they do.
 

greg334

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Hey guys (and Gals) Toyota will honor the warenty IF the work is done by the dealer. Of course there are other things that will not viod the warenty.

Toyota shares the same attitude as the big Two and D-C has which is that the dealers have the right to alter the vehicle to fit the needs of the customer without effecting the warenty. Or in another words if you need a truck with a 3.08:1 rear end and the dealer has a truck that has a 3.87:1 rear end, they can change out the rear end without effecting the warenty - this change is recorded as dealer work in the toyota's vehicle managment system (what ever it is called).
 

garman351

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Hino gearing update:
I've done so much research on these Hino's this is where I'm at right now. I even have the dealers I'm working with looking into changing rear gears by contacting Toyoto for answers.

5-Speed auto. Bad Mpg and is running top rpm at legal highway speeds
I have heard of up and coming extra over drives etc.

6-Speed is "better" BUT the truck we drove had a 410 rear gear and was wide open at 70Mph 2,600 Rpm's Not good at all.

The dealer tells me about changing out the rear gears to a 390 instead of the 410 gears we test drove. Better but not good enough in my opinion.

There is 370 gears available but not accepted by Toyoto yet to be covered by it's warranty, my question was why do they make them if they are not accepted. The dealer I'm working with has ordered both 370 & 390 gears and will be changed over on two new Hino trucks by next week for testing on highway rpm's. My next question was with the 370 gears I would like to see a full load in the back so we can see if we still have enough low end to pull out of a lower loading dock. My guess will be it will work great.

Looking to buy a new Hino. First thing is to replace the front seats before you buy the truck. They are cheap day seats for city driving only. If you ever had seen a new Hino the passenger seat is wide enough to be a love seat, both seats are not air ride.

In my opinion with the new replacement 370 rear gears, and the best interest rates available around 6.0% and a three year warranty you will be hard pressed to find a better quality truck.

My new Hino will have aluminum wheels all around front chrome bumper, Thermo king Tripak heating & cooling unit, extra battery's with an isolater switch, two aluminum tool boxes 36x24x24 wide ride bolstrom seats (two) duel 52 gal tanks,rear landing legs air ride sleeper and rear suspension. 96In sleeper etc all for $98,516.00 with the $675 license plate out the door. I have heard of New Hino's with 84in sleeper better seats etc going for around $84K

Like American cars back in the early seventy's foreign cars were better quality built and better Mpg over American made cars. I feel that new American made trucks are very high quality but over priced and most dealers think 10.% interest rates on a 100K plus truck is a good deal. I say no thanks I will be forced to buy that new Hino, and the flip side of the coin is they will be the best bargain truck ever made with-in the next couple of years. So far they have been out a 1 1/2 years and (NO COMPLAINTS) from break down issues etc.

The best part is Hino's are American made,yes they have foreign made parts to make up these vehicles,and so does most American made cars and everything else now days, so I dont feel like I'm hurting some truck assembly line worker's job at Freightliner.

Garman351
 

tazman

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

NO...NO.....NO...not true.

No manufacturer (and sell a few)...will honor the factory warranty if the change violates the engineering standards set at the factory...
I've gone though this with Ford and GM..several times
Just read your warranty book...to prove the point

In the case of this discussion.....If Hino Engineering allows (in writing) a gear ratio change....and it's done at a Hino dealers shop...then you are correct....

But to just think that a dealer (who is really just an agent) of the company will do this without prior approval...is why you see dealers in trouble in the service departments of their businesses....

Just a side note....get in writing things like interest rates and terms.....on an agreement ot buyers order before you walk in the door....I can't tel you how many people are surprised ...when they get to the finance desk and things seem to go badly....

My 2 cents worth again...

Frank

"The Beast in the East"
 

davekc

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Franks is correct. This applies to all trucks. Also other components must have a written acceptance prior to modifications.
A example of this would be changing the rears. Engineering from say FL would have to approve it as well as Allison or Eaton for the transmission. If you don't have those, it will void the warranty.







Davekc
owner
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PantherII
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garman351

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

(Very good point)

My current dealership I'm working with I clearly told him just the other day all the changes we made I will need a typed out proposal that has everything in detail what I'm paying for and what the dealership is going to do as we (both) agreed upon.

Other wise that very nice helpful sales person has a totally different attitude once the papers are signed.

Also dealerships will give you a projected date for pick-up of your new truck, (beware) I would put in writing that after a certain amount of time goes by you have the right to cancel your contract and to be able to move on, (They Do) when it comes to giving you a proposal for current pricing good for thirty days etc.

You have waited 60 days to pick-up your new truck than the dealership will tell you we have to reduce your trade-in now because your truck now has to many miles on it for them to be able to sell your trade-in. Dealership's they need to know your not going out of service with your trade-in while you are waiting for their so-called delivery time.

This is a big business decison and your truck will cost more than an average home. Dont be afraid to Pi-- off the sales person with your demands,other wise tell them you will move on.

Garman351
 

Prarysun

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Garman, just curious, how long did they tell you the lead time was to get your truck? We were promised 6 weeks. However, It is not in writing..... Also, you said something about upping the gears in the automatics. Do you know if that will apply to the 07's? Thanks!:+
 

greg334

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Frank, you are right.

Sorry I wasn't clear on this and in hurry to post it. Now I sound like someone else.

I am talking about component changes within the range of approved or offered specs, not outright modifications like Cab modifications or wheelbase modifications.
 

tazman

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

Even if the change is within the options available (i.e the rear gearing) ...the dealer must/or should have an engineering approval to modify the "as built" spec on the truck....

This protects everyone ....as you you how lawyers like to follow the money....meaning...if something happens and the part changed out comes into question....well who pays now....

This is especially important if the owner has work done at another dealer at a later date .....let's say he changes the gearing and the truck ends up for repair in California...and the tech in Ca. looks at the build sheet online to repair a defective "widget"....that just happens to effect the new rear gear......do you see what could happen ??????

Just my 2 cents worth.....

"The Beast in the East":)
 

darkunicorn

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

I own a 2006 have had it 4 months the fuel mileage at first was as bad as my old International but after it got over 25k it improved a lot I have a heavy foot so my #’s aren’t going to be as good as others but one thing I’d do is forget the 6sp I have the Allison automatic and I’m doing over 10mpg even with my foot in it all the time! Next order it with the higher gears know some one else that did and run with them threw the smokies and they did better going up and down the hills than I did and get 2 mpg better than I do. Order the higher gear you won’t have to worry about the rumor you heard about voiding warranty, and I’m going to do the gear exchange my self soon its done threw the Hino network so no its not going to void the warranty!
The warranty is great the dealers across the country are fantastic the road service is great I have had to use it I am one of only 2 people that have ever had a computer go bad in a Hino was taken very good care of while being repaired on the road. I bought mine from Bob Rizzo @ Churney’s truck center. he has continued to take care of me even now 4 months later with issues concerning the sleeper company.
I’m real happy with my Hino once you drive one you’ll wonder why you didn’t buy one sooner! Its quiet like driving a car my ford pu isn’t as quiet oh might be the mud tires!
And I don’t even have a auto in my personal vehicles but man after 4 trips threw Detroit City in 2 days this week was glad I got the auto plus the resale on the auto makes it worth it.
 

garman351

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RE: 2007 Hino 338 (Gearing Issues) Looking at New

We are still waiting for our new 2007 Hino/Hinny as I like to call them. With a 370 gear change my dealer tells me the truck will turn 2000 Rpm's at 65 Mph. He looked in a web-site called it roadrander.com
You can plug in your tire size,gear ratio, and answer a another question or two than it will tell you what your truck should do at a certain MPH or RPM in high gear.

www.roadranger.com
Click on road speed calculator to the lower right side of the opening web page.

I'm skeptical the calculations does not factor in aerodynamices,load factors etc. My dealer seemed pretty convinced it was very accurate!
Maybe somebody who knows their truck, and how it runs at a certain RPM at lets say 60 MPH can check to see if those calculations are accurate? "I would like to know"

Our Freightliner turns 1,950 RPM'S at 70 MPH

So my new Hinny should run 2,300 RPM'S at 70 MPH I would guess?

Any Hino owners can you please tell me what your truck turns at highway speeds.

Thanks for the help.

Garman351 :D :D
 
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