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Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

Discussion in 'The Soapbox' started by AMonger, May 1, 2013.

  1. AMonger

    AMonger Active Expediter

    Pentagon plans to prosecute any military member who shares his faith in any way, including chaplains. One advisor calls it "treason."

    For those that keep throwing that term around loosely, like the ******* who does it in this case, treason is very narrowly defined in and by the constitution. Treason is limited to 1) making war against the States; and 2) giving aid and comfort to their enemies. That's it. Nothing else is treason. The founding fathers set it up this way to ensure that dissent couldn't be called treason.

    As I've proven here before, it's a myth that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to military members. The air force told us quite the opposite in basic training. Anyone so charged who knows his rights should be able to beat this, and anybody who thinks this application of the Constitution is correct is seriously cognitively deficient.

    "Fair Use" in federal law covers quotations such as this when submitting something for comment.

    Ever think it would come to this?
    Pentagon Confirms May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith
    by Ken Klukowski

    The statement, released to Fox News, follows a Breitbart News report on Obama administration Pentagon appointees meeting with anti-Christian extremist Mikey Weinstein to develop court-martial procedures to punish Christians in the military who express or share their faith.

    (From our earlier report: Weinstein is the head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and says Christians--including chaplains--sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the military are guilty of “treason,” and of committing an act of “spiritual rape” as serious a crime as “sexual assault.” He also asserted that Christians sharing their faith in the military are “enemies of the Constitution.”)

    Being convicted in a court martial means that a soldier has committed a crime under federal military law. Punishment for a court martial can include imprisonment and being dishonorably discharged from the military.

    So President Barack Obama’s civilian appointees who lead the Pentagon are confirming that the military will make it a crime--possibly resulting in imprisonment--for those in uniform to share their faith. This would include chaplains—military officers who are ordained clergymen of their faith (mostly Christian pastors or priests, or Jewish rabbis)--whose duty since the founding of the U.S. military under George Washington is to teach their faith and minister to the spiritual needs of troops who come to them for counsel, instruction, or comfort.

    This regulation would severely limit expressions of faith in the military, even on a one-to-one basis between close friends. It could also effectively abolish the position of chaplain in the military, as it would not allow chaplains (or any service members, for that matter), to say anything about their faith that others say led them to think they were being encouraged to make faith part of their life. It’s difficult to imagine how a member of the clergy could give spiritual counseling without saying anything that might be perceived in that fashion.

    In response to the Pentagon’s plans, retired Lt. Gen. Jerry Boykin, who is now executive vice president of the Family Research Council (FRC), said on Fox & Friends this morning:

    “It’s a matter of what do they mean by ‘proselytizing.’...I think they’ve got their defintions a little confused. If you’re talking about coercion that’s one thing, but if you’re talking about the free exercise of our faith as individual soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines, especially for the chaplains, they I think the worst thing we can do is stop the ability for a soldier to be able to exercise his faith.”

    FRC has launched a petition here which has already collected over 30,000 signatures, calling on Secretary Hagel is stop working with Weinstein and his anti-Christian organization to develop military policy regarding religious faith.

    Breitbart News legal columnist Ken Klukowski is senior fellow for religious liberty with the Family Research Council and on faculty at Liberty University School of Law.

    WWATD: What would Andy Taylor do?
  2. AMonger

    AMonger Active Expediter

    More on the story:

    The writer of the above blog states that, while it's unclear how serious the Pentagon is going to take this, gone is the day when this could be laughed off as the ravings of a hardcore, anti-religion whack job, frothing at the mouth. 25 years ago, the idea of socialized medicine was laughed at, and yet here we are. No one knows of what the madman at the helm is capable; his caprice seems to know no bounds.
  3. LDB

    LDB Expert Expediter

    Are they going to court martial muslims who share their beliefs?
  4. RLENT

    RLENT Seasoned Expediter

    Militarism and religious zealotry and/or fanaticism (of any particular variety or flavor) are never a good mix ... all one has to do is consult history to see that it is so ...
  5. RLENT

    RLENT Seasoned Expediter

  6. TropixBum

    TropixBum New Recruit

    Acts 10:19-22. Acts 27:31,32. I can do this all day...... there goes Gods word getting in the way again. :D

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  7. Turtle

    Turtle Administrator Staff Member

    It's got nothing to do with the madman at the helm, but rather the morally questionable techniques used by Christian evangelicals exercising their faith in fine mafioso fashion. No one, other than the Chicken Little Drama Queens, are talking about muzzling chaplains or anyone else who wants to exercise or talk about their faith. In years gone by, and in the recent present, some of these groups have used their religion as a shield to stand behind while they engage in coercion, and even extortion, all in the name of the Lord, of course. For some reason it's incorrect, in the minds of some wacko extremists, that Evangelical Christianity could be classified as a religious extremist group in the same way as radical Islam can be classified. Yet they are, in fact, the same type of radical extremism, each overflowing with hatred and violence, each after the same goals.
  8. letzrockexpress

    letzrockexpress New Recruit

    Christian Evangelicals or any other so called "religious" group are likely to have varying degrees of faith and even more varying methods of demonstrating that faith when it comes to devotion. The Westboro Baptist Church people, who I consider religious extremists, claim to represent Christian Fundamentals but I have to believe your garden variety Presbyterian wouldn't be in the same camp.
  9. BobWolf

    BobWolf Active Expediter

    Im sure this putz never had an oppertunity to shake hands with death. Ive been there, done that,and have the T shirt. I gurantee you will seek God or pray God is watching over you when you are in a potentialy deadly situation.

    Bob Wolf.
  10. cheri1122

    cheri1122 Expert Expediter

    You "gurantee [sic] it"?
    I was positive that my life was about to be suddenly ended once - not in the military, or through violence, but through a sudden critical illness. The fear lasted just a few days, but it was as real as anything I've ever felt - and according to the doctors, not at all unfounded or exaggerated.

    I didn't seek God, nor pray that He was watching over me, because I don't believe your God exists.
    I recovered without the prayers or belief, just a couple surgeries.
    The problem with some Christians is that they simply cannot allow others the same freedom of beliefs they demand for themselves.
    I don't feel any need to try to persuade others to share my beliefs - it's enough for me to believe, I don't seek validation from others.
    That the Catholic church requires all children to be raised Catholic, and the Christians are exhorted to proselytize every chance they get makes me wonder: why is it so important for others to agree with your beliefs?
    I know what the church says, and I don't buy that, either.

  11. asjssl

    asjssl Seasoned Expediter

    Could never figure out when someone goes thru surgery or some big medical procedure...they say thank god for getting me thru this...see I would thank the hell out of the medical staff and espically the doctor...there hard work and years of experience is what did it...
    And the nurses tending to your every need is who you really need to thank also...
  12. xiggi

    xiggi Expert Expediter

    They can't thank both? I tend to think of it as a personal choice that has zilch to do with me so i would spend no time trying to figure it out.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EO Forums mobile app
  13. RLENT

    RLENT Seasoned Expediter

    Well speaking of putzes, here's a snippet of a what a devoted follower of Jeebus (who the particular putz quoted below has mistakenly misidentified for the genuine article: Jesus) had to say to Mr. Weinstein ... clearly in his own "kind" and "loving" Christian way:

    The full exchange can be read at the following link:

    Re: Death is too good for you (with responses) | Military Religious Freedom Foundation - Protecting the Constitutional Guarantee of Separation of Church and State in the United States Military

    That one seems relatively tame - at least when compared against former Navy Chaplain Gordon Klingenschimdt's alleged request (as quoted by Weinstein) ... "to Jesus to plunder my (Weinstein's) fields ... seize my assets, kill me and my family then wipe away our descendants for 10 generations."

    Dallas Morning News - Front Page Story - Lawyer Sues to Stop Dallas Group's Prayers That He Says Call for Violence, Death

    Texas ... it's always Texas ...

    I wouldn't want to presume what another person might or might not seek when facing a potentialy deadly situation ... but this I can tell you: not all folks facing death fear it ... or what might follow ...

    BTW, this "putz" as you refer to him was a JAG officer (military lawyer) for ten years, served as the first General Counsel for Ross Perot and Perot Systems, as well as serving as Assistant General Counsel to The White House Office of Administration, Executive Office of The President, under President Ronald Reagan.
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  14. asjssl

    asjssl Seasoned Expediter

    Sure..but you never hear that part..never hear anyone thanking doctor/hospital or modern medicine for that heart bypass surgery.. it always thank god and prayers got you thru it was a good doctor and modern medicine..give credit where credit is due...
  15. LDB

    LDB Expert Expediter

    My dad was an excellent doctor. He often got thanks for his work, cards, flowers, plants and other things. Along with frequent appreciation from his patients he also frequently heard thanks that God had led them to such a good doctor. If one isn't against God one can acknowledge that healing can often be the result of the combination of God and prayers and a good doctor.
  16. cheri1122

    cheri1122 Expert Expediter

    Yeah, AJ: you left out the nurses, %@&#%$!
    JK. When I was the nurse, we were often thanked and appreciated for what we did.
    If you never hear about it, it's because you don't have nurses or doctors in the family, I guess, but patients DO appreciate good care and the technology & techniques that allowed them to have it.
    When they didn't, we just reminded them who has the keys to the pain meds, lol.
  17. Dreamer

    Dreamer Expert Expediter Staff Member Charter Member

    I have several nurses in my family, and they always said be nice to your nurse, she puts the catheter in... :eek:

  18. moose

    moose New Recruit

    &...once an administrator opened the door, you simply can't expect the good O'l Moose to restrain himself, now do here we go:
    "A man is lying in bed in a hospital with an oxygen mask over his mouth.
    A young nurse appears to sponge his face and hands.
    "Nurse," he mumbles from behind the mask, "Are my testicles black?"
    Embarrassed the young nurse replies, "I don't know, I''m only here to wash your face and hands."
    He struggles again to ask, "Nurse, Are my testicles black?"
    Again the nurse replies, "I can''t tell. I''m only here to wash your face and hands."
    The ward nurse passes by and sees the man getting a little distraught so she marches over to inquire what is wrong.
    "Nurse," he mumbles, "Are my testicles black?"
    Being a nurse she is undaunted. She whips back the bedclothes, pulls down his pajama trousers, moves his penis out of the way, has a good look, pulls up the pajamas, replaces the bedclothes and announces, "Nothing is wrong with them."
    At this point the man pulls off his oxygen mask and asks again,

    "Are my test results back?"
  19. cheri1122

    cheri1122 Expert Expediter

  20. xmudman

    xmudman Expert Expediter

    Cleveland, Philly, any big (or even small) city. Ask me how I know ;-)

    Sent from my SCH-I110 using EO Forums mobile app

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