In Break With Trump, Interior Pick Says Climate Change No Hoax

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
In Break With Trump, Interior Pick Says Climate Change No Hoax

Zinke’s comments during a cordial confirmation hearing Tuesday come as Trump himself has distanced himself from his earlier tweets casting climate change as a hoax perpetrated by scientists and China. The president-elect told The New York Times he had an open mind on the issue during an interview in November, and he has signaled he may not make good on his campaign pledge to rip up the landmark Paris accord in which nearly 200 countries agreed to cut carbon dioxide emissions.

If it were Obama they be screaming he is flip flopping....I guess distancing ones self from earlier comments isn't flopping?....LOL
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"Climate change is a hoax invented by China," is the same as "Yo mama wears Army boots."

It's designed to get a rise out of people, mainly China, as well as the Anthropomorphic Climate Change worshipers.

Yes, yes, yes, I know. The science of Global Warming is settled. It's a done deal. 95% of scientists agree that global warming exists and that it's caused 100% by human activity.

Remember when the geocentric science was settled and 95% of scientists agreed 100% that the Sun, Moon and stars all revolved around us? Nicolas Copernicus proved that to be juuuuust a tad bit wrong in 1543.

Remember when the science was settled, boom, a done deal, we got this, on how stress causes peptic ulcers? Take antacids, modify your lifestyle, calm down. Then it was discovered that the bacterium H. pylori caused peptic ulcer disease no matter how stress-free and chill your lifestyle is, which won the discoverer a Nobel Prize.

Remember when the universe was static, neither expanding nor contracting, and how 99% of all scientists, including Einstein said so? Whoops.

The question isn't whether Climate Change is real or a hoax, it's how much of a role humans have (and can play) in all of it. As Zinke said in his testimony, "facts are indisputable." And it is an indisputable that the climate is changing. It is also an indisputable fact that the climate has always been changing. As well, it is an indisputable fact that that disappearing glaciers in Glacier National Park weren't always there to begin with and that the entire area used to be under ocean water.

Another indisputable fact is that redistributing wealth and the carbon tax hasn't worked. At all. In reducing carbon emissions.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
i agree...the real issue is how much effect Humans have had on any portion of said change...
Change happens naturally...heat comes and then the cold...its just the evolution of the earth....did we help push that along some what?....I don't think anyone will ever agree on that.... change is happening...how much is our doing?...we will probably never really know...
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
.did we help push that along some what?....I don't think anyone will ever agree on that....
Anyone who does a little research (beyond confirmation bias websites) and is even a little bit scientifically literate, will conclude that humans have had an effect and have pushed it along at least somewhat. There's no way to know exactly to what degree, though.

It is an indisputable fact that greenhouse gasses have a warming effect on a closed ecosystem. That is confirmed by both observation and experiment. If A occurs (increase in greehouse gasses) then B will happen (heat retention and warming). Always. There has never been an observation or experiment that showed anything else.

As for whether or not human can have or have had an effect, that's where a little research and scientific literacy will help, but all you need is a little knowledge and reasonable thinking to be able to at least form a working hypothesis.

For example, we now know that lead in any amount within the human body is harmful. even the smallest amounts have a detrimental effect on brain and nervous system functions. Larger amount will make you insane and will kill you. We also know that lead is a mined mineral and is not naturally found evenly strewn about in the environment. But it has certain industrial uses, so we use it in industry. Back in the 1940s and 1950s a geochemist named Clair Patterson (a man from Mitchellville, IA) was doing research on better ways to determine the age of the Earth (and thus far, is appears he nailed it). He was developing and using the highly accurate uranium-lead dating method of lead-dating to determine the age of certain rocks, specifically the Canyon Diablo meteorite that formed Meteor Crater in Arizona. Scientists can examine certain formation in rock stratum (crust layers) to determine the age of certain geological events, but those can go back only so far and do not tell us the age of the Earth. However, we know the bulk of the matter in the solar system (sun, planets, asteroids) would all be the same age. If you can precisely determine the age of materials that are largely unchanged sine their formations, you have a much more accurate estimation of just how old the Earth and everything else in the solar system is.

To do this, you need a ridiculously hyper-accurate count of lead in zircon particles from the meteor from Meteor Crater (and then confirmed with equally accurate of other meteorites), which Patterson obtained, and to work in conjunction with similar results collected by George Tilton on uranium counts; and with the established half-life of uranium's radioactive decay to lead, this would be used to estimate the age of the Earth. Patterson found that his results were contaminated by lead from the ambient environment, compared to Tilton's results (lead doesn't have an effect on uranium counts). Patterson cleaned and scrubbed everything in the lab but still had lead contamination, seemingly from everywhere. He eventually constructed the first ultra-high cleanroom to remove all traces of environmental lead. With these clean results, Patterson was able to estimate the age of the Earth to 4.5 billion years.

But where is all this environmental lead coming from, he wondered. Lead does not naturally occur at Earth's surface, but has been readily mined by humans going back at least to the Roman Empire, and we've known since at least the Roman Empire that lead is poisonous to humans. "Must-be-mined," "poisonous-to-humans", and "is-everywhere-in-the-environment" doesn't make much sense. Patterson then went on a quest and examined the levels of lead in the common surface environment, and in deeper parts of the oceans, and then in the Greenland and Antarctic ice, showing that lead had only been brought to the surface in recent times. Interior Antarctica is among the most remote places on Earth and was thought to be beyond the reach of human impacts when Amundsen and Scott raced to the South Pole in 1911. But detailed measurements from an extensive array of ice cores showed unequivocally that substantial toxic heavy metal lead pollution was already well established at the South Pole and throughout Antarctica by 1889, a full 22 years before Amundsen and Scott arrived.

The timing and magnitude of changes in lead deposition (and in certain other isotopes traceable only to a single source) across Antarctica strongly suggest that this single emission source in southern Australia was responsible for the introduction of lead pollution into Antarctica at the end of the 19th century, which is when the industrial revolution began in Australia. The same timing and magnitude occurred in the norther hemispheric ice cores, only the magnitude was even greater, and it peaked in the 1970s, the difference being of course more people and more industry. The ice cores even show the precise date when lead was added to gasoline, with a corresponding massive leap in the levels in the ice.

Patterson had to fight for many years against corporate-funded "scientific research" that showed lead was perfectly safe and harmless in general, and particular for use in gasoline. Patterson would continue to campaign against the use of lead, with real, actual science and a little common sense exposing the truth, and ultimately resulting in government-mandated restrictions on the use of lead. It is this same type of work by scientists today that is used to help alert mankind to other fateful issues that can be identified by the study of nature. The human effect of Climate Change is just one of the examples of that, and it should not be dismissed out of hand because of corporate-funded "scientific research" that shows greenhouse gasses have zero effect on the environment. By the same token, it is equally absurd to think that Climate Change is 100% caused by humans. We know that humans can have an effect on the environment, but what we don't know, and what science cannot as yet tell us, it to precisely what degree that may be.

So if you've reads this far, and can understand how lead got into the environment by industrial and automobile emissions, how we literally laid down a thin layer of lead the world over just from the minuscule amount of lead in leaded gasoline emissions, and without having a scientific degree or a high literacy of science can see how that happened in a very not-natural way, and knowing the science of the effects of greenhouse gasses on a closed environment is indisputable, it doesn't take much of a leap of scientifically ignorant faith to realize that industrial emission of greenhouse gasses on a global scale wouldn't have at least some sort of an effect on the environment.

The more you know about chemistry, the better you can measure the cause and effect of greenhouse gasses in a closed environment. You can begin to calculate (at least with rough estimates) what the effect might be of this or that amount of greenhouse gasses introduced into an existing environment. But there are also too many variables at play (everything from the efficiency of the planet to scrub and store greenhouse molecules to the position of the solar system within our arm the spiral galaxy) to be able to really point confidently to an exact percentage of it that is caused solely bu human activity. It's safe to say that humans are certainly playing a major role in it, though.
 
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