Another why do people protest

JohnWC

Veteran Expediter
Why all this protesting about trump
I've sat back watched my insurance go 5 times higher
Seen where a man can go into a bathroom that a young girl is in all they have to say is I think I should have been a woman
Etc etc etc for almost 8 years
Man with a gun in his hand cops kill him protest think this is getting stupid
 
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Perioodic

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Because as American Citizens, they have the right to protest. Just because you choose to sit back and watch, doesn't mean other people can't exercise their rights.

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
At least we don't once again have a bunch of bed wetters whining about how the Electoral College is unfair.

Oh , wait. . .
 

JohnWC

Veteran Expediter
Yep but that would alow the most populated areas to control the country
And the states that turned red I say he won a republican outsider with more Democrat ideas just won
 

Yowpuggy

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
With the present system I don't think everyone's vote is important because only a few states decide election.


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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
With the present system I don't think everyone's vote is important because only a few states decide election.
The people don't elect the president, the States do.
Huh?

Explain please, I'm confused.
Well, for starters, our government is a representative republic, not a strict democracy. In a strict democracy, the majority rules, always, which means the majority can put in place things that would actually harm the minority (tyranny). It would also mean that to elect a president, the winner would need at a minimum of 50.1% of the vote. In this most recent election, that didn't happen. We'd have to drop the bottom vote getter and vote again, and keep doing that until someone got a majority of the votes.

Most importantly, this is the United States of America, where each State is a separate and distinct sovereign entity (although the federal government has tried its dead-level best to change that over the years).

The Constitution lays out how we elect the president and vice president. It is done by each state by Electors (Article II, Section 2). "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector." Each state has 2 Senators, and a number of Representatives, and each of those gets one Elector. So the Electors represent The People of each State in exactly the same way The People is represented in the Senate and the House of Representatives.

Article II, Section 3 lays out how the Electors select the president and vice president, but that section was amended by the 12th (1804 - to stop the practice of the runner up being the vice president (can you imagine the harmony and effectiveness of a President Trump and Vice President Clinton?)), and later 22nd, and 23rd Amendments.

The national presidential election actually consists of 51 separate elections (47 States, 3 Commonwealths, 1 District of Columbia), rather than the one big fat hairy popular vote election that the SJWs and bed wetters think it should be. When we vote for the president and vice president, most ballots actually say at the top that you're voting for the "Electors for..." and naming the presidential and vice-presidential candidates each slate of electors is pledged to.

Most states (except Maine and Nebraska) give all of their Electoral votes to the candidate who wins the popular vote. That's why if you win the popular vote in Florida you get all 29 Electoral votes. But they don't have to. How the states divide up their Electoral votes is up to them. In Maine and Nebraska they divide them up by Congressional District.

So, each State casts its vote for the presidential and vice presidential candidates, by having its Electors vote. Whichever candidate gets the strict democracy simple majority of those votes wins. If neither candidate gets a majority (270) of the 538 electoral votes, the election for President is decided in the House of Representatives, with each state delegation having one vote, and a majority of states (26) is needed to win. The Senators would elect the Vice-President, with each Senator having a vote, with a majority of Senators (51) is needed to win.

There is a "movement" to get the states (the current swing states, in particular) to award all of their Electoral votes to the candidate who wins the national popular vote. The people in California, Washington, Oregon, and some of the more populated northeast states, who all vote Democratic, are the ones who desperately want to convince Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and a couple of others to do that, so that the total of their blue states plus those swing states totals 270, to Hell with all the other states. But that movement has about as much chance of happening as the country itself doing away with the Electoral College completely.

On a not completely unrelated note, California is threatening a Calexit (like Brexit, get it?), to secede from the Union, because their votes for Clinton didn't get Clinton Elected, and they're pouting and temper tantrumpting about it. I don't think they realize just how little resistance such a move would encounter. More likely, the rest of America will respond with, "Excellent! When? Don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out."

I think we should completely redo the Electoral College so that each county gets one vote. Kentucky, for example, has 120 counties. 118 of them voted for Trump. Democrats would never ever win again. BWWAAAHHHAAAA
 
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Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
With the present system I don't think everyone's vote is important because only a few states decide election.
The people don't elect the president, the States do.
Huh?

Explain please, I'm confused.
Well, for starters, our government is a representative republic, not a strict democracy. In a strict democracy, the majority rules, always, which means the majority can put in place things that would actually harm the minority (tyranny). It would also mean that to elect a president, the winner would need at a minimum of 50.1% of the vote. In this most recent election, that didn't happen. We'd have to drop the bottom vote getter and vote again, and keep doing that until someone got a majority of the votes.

Most importantly, this is the United States of America, where each State is a separate and distinct sovereign entity (although the federal government has tried its dead-level best to change that over the years).

The Constitution lays out how we elect the president and vice president. It is done by each state by Electors (Article II, Section 2). "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector." Each state has 2 Senators, and a number of Representatives, and each of those gets one Elector. So the Electors represent The People of each State in exactly the same way The People is represented in the Senate and the House of Representatives.

Article II, Section 3 lays out how the Electors select the president and vice president, but that section was amended by the 12th (1804 - to stop the practice of the runner up being the vice president (can you imagine the harmony and effectiveness of a President Trump and Vice President Clinton?)), and later 22nd, and 23rd Amendments.

The national presidential election actually consists of 51 separate elections (47 States, 3 Commonwealths, 1 District of Columbia), rather than the one big far hairy popular vote election that the SJWs and bed wetters think it should be. When we vote for the president and vice president, most ballots actually say at the top that you're voting for the "Electors for..." and naming the presidential and vice-presidential candidates each slate of electors is pledged to.

Most states (except Maine and Nebraska) give all of their Electoral votes to the candidate who wins the popular vote. That's why if you win the popular vote in Florida you get all 29 Electoral votes. But they don't have to. How the states divide up their Electoral votes is up to them. In Maine and Nebraska they divide them up by Congressional District.

So, each State casts its vote for the presidential and vice presidential candidates, by having its Electors vote. Whichever candidate gets the strict democracy simple majority of those votes wins. If neither candidate gets a majority (270) of the 538 electoral votes, the election for President is decided in the House of Representatives, with each state delegation having one vote, and a majority of states (26) is needed to win. The Senators would elect the Vice-President, with each Senator having a vote, with a majority of Senators (51) is needed to win.

There is a "movement" to get the states (the current swing states, in particular) to award all of their Electoral votes to the candidate who wins the national popular vote. The people in California, Washington, Oregon, and some of the more populated northeast states, who all vote Democratic, are the ones who desperately want to convince Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and a couple of others to do that, so that the total of their blue states plus those swing states totals 270, to Hell with all the other states. But that movement has about as much chance of happening as the country itself doing away with the Electoral College completely.

On a not completely unrelated note, California is threatening a Calexit (like Brexit, get it?), to secede from the Union, because their votes for Clinton didn't get Clinton Elected, and they're pouting and temper tantrumpting about it. I don't think they realize just how little resistance such a move would encounter. More likely, the rest of America will respond with, "Excellent! When? Don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out."

I think we should completely redo the Electoral College so that each county gets one vote. Kentucky, for example, has 120 counties. 118 of them voted for Trump. Democrats would never ever win again. BWWAAAHHHAAAA
Gotch ya
 

Yowpuggy

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
The electoral college violates the democratic principle of one person, one vote, and distorts the presidential campaign by encouraging candidates to campaign only in a small number of contested states.


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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The electoral college violates the democratic principle of one person, one vote, and distorts the presidential campaign by encouraging candidates to campaign only in a small number of contested states.
Two things, second one first. If we went to a one-person, one -vote, the number of contested states would be much smaller, and not only that, they'd only have to campaign in a handful of counties in those states. There wouldn't even be contested states, only contested counties. Here's an eye opener from the 2012 election map that shows this.

Capture.PNG
Those mauve colored counties are the only places candidates would have to visit, and even then, other than Detroit and Chicago, everything between the Appalachians and the Rockies could be ignored.

Why even go to Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, North Dakota, South Dakota, or Nebraska, when you can get more votes in New Jersey alone than you can in all of those states combined?

So, no, going to a strict democracy and one person one vote would concentrate the campaigning significantly more than the Electoral College does.

Second, the first thing... the Electoral College absolutely, positively does NOT violate the democratic principle of one person one vote, it embodies it. Take Texas, and its 38 Electoral votes, for example. The people of the great State of Texas cast their votes for president and vice president. Let's say that a total of 8,831,661 votes were cast, and 4,415,831 were cast for Hillary, and 4,415,830 were cast for Trump. One-person, one-vote, Hillary wins. It cannot possibly get any more democratically principled than that. And every vote counted.

Texas could choose, if they wanted, to split the votes and give Hillary 20 Electoral votes and Donald 18 Electoral votes, but they don't, they actually give all 38 Electoral votes to Hillary, because she won the popular vote in a one-person, one-vote contest. Sooooo, Texas casts all of its votes for Hillary, and it's 38 of them, because they have 2 Senators and 36 Representatives in the House.

Again, the election of the president and vice president isn't one big fat hairy nationwide election, it's 51 separate individual elections.
 

Yowpuggy

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
I get it. It would take a constitutional amendment to change it anyway, and no one has the will to do that.


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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I see a lot of protesting is around colleges....I guess they having a tantrum they thought for sure Hillary would get in and subsidize their students loans...oh well....time they got a part time job or 2...:)
 
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