Seeing the candidates have talked about this subject recently and I have no clue as to what they are talking about. Are these free trade agreements good or bad? I know the basics like trade is good but other than that not much else. I looked around online but well thats a mix bag of sorts. So anyone able to explain it? I've asked around and most of the time I get "its bad" and really no explanation as to why.
Trade agreements (NAFTA, TPP)
- Thread starter TDave
- Start date
"Depends on whose ox is being gored", or in other words " a given event will be seen differently depending on the degree to which the viewer’s self-interest is involved "
jimmy
jimmy
Generally, free trade is good for business, bad for workers (in the US). Free trade is international trade left to its natural course without tariffs, quotas, or other restrictions. If there is, say, an import duty of 10% on goods made in Mexico, that would add to the purchase price of goods from Mexico. If that import duty is removed, as with free trade, then the cheaper labor of Mexico makes it advantageous to move manufacturing from the US to Mexico. Business are rewarded for doing so. Since the passage of NAFTA, us manufacturing has flooded out of the US and into Mexico. On a level playing field, free trade is good, as it lets the market determine things. However, if labor labor standards are not enforced in other countries, but they are enforced in the US, it literally rewards those business in the other countries of abusing their workers.
It's not unlike the CMV regulations of the US and Canada, which are virtually identical, but in Mexico they are not the same at all, and are rarely enforced. Mexican truck drivers can drive 15 hours to get to the Mexican border, then start logging at the border and have a fresh set of hours to drive 500 miles or more, at the much lower rate per mile of Mexico. That's a really good thing for business, as it gets their freight delivered much cheaper and quicker than if delivered by a US truck, but it's a definite disadvantage to the American truck driver who can't compete with rates.
Thanks. Yeah that makes sense. I know trade is good but now in that light not so much for us. One more thing if NAFTA didn't exist could an American company still move to Mexico anyways? Or would tariffs be a way to discourage it?
Sure they could move to Mexico. And, tariffs would certainly discourage it. But it's not as simple as wages and tariffs, as there is also the tax code which literally encourages businesses to relocate overseas (foreign profits are not taxed, generally). It's complicated, but still, with free trade and no tariffs or import/export quotas and restrictions, beginning in the late 1970s and the 1980s, through free trade globalization, it became possible and attractive for businesses to do business in, to, and from far more countries. Changes in corporate governance and compensation caused U.S. managers to adopt an approach to management that focused attention on the stock price and short-term performance, rather than on the longer term.
As a result, firms invested less in shared resources such as pools of skilled labor, supplier networks, an educated populace, and the physical and technical infrastructure on which U.S. competitiveness ultimately depends. These management actions in turn gave rise to serious social problems (loss of jobs, stagnating income, growing inequality) and eventually a decline of the public sector (an inability to fund health and pensions, or investments in "the commons" such as infrastructure, training, education, and basic research, fields that the private sector had abandoned).
So while free trade is uber good for a corporation's bottom line, and thus for stockholders, it truly sucks for American workers.
We could just build all the flat-screen TV’s here; the price wouldn’t soar (prices are always market driven, regardless of costs, including how much money is spent on advertising, plus you wouldn't have the cost of shipping them here from China), demand wouldn’t plummet, the industry wouldn’t contract sharply, and all those jobs would be preserved, even though they’d cost 7 times as much per worker here as in China. But a sevenfold increase in labor costs would cause a real hit to the bottom line and to the stock price. Building TVs here is good for America and American workers, but not as good for the bottom line of the businesses who make them. Slapping a large tariff on imported flat screen TVs would still see them sold at the market price, but would encourage the makers to shift manufacturing to here instead of imported it.
Hillary Clinton called the Trans Pacific Partnership "the gold standard" of free trade agreements, and then flip-flopped when it became politically necessary and expedient for her to do so (and will flip again if she becomes the president). If you think we import a lot of crap from China now, wait until the TPP gets passed. You can't seen nothing yet. We'll be importing hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet from China.
well if it weren't for NAFTA..you'd have not 1 single car built here....or very few....NAFTA is not the problem..its the corporate tax rate WAY to HIGH....lower that and watch companies change paths....Pedro's wages are getting higher over there and the edge is being lost somewhat depending on whats being produced...some companies are actually moving back but the media won't tell you that part....automation, robotics has also kicked the crap out of the job market ....more robots, less humans....humans are a liability....Trump is blowing smoke out his arse...on this
With Sprinters now going to be built here in the US....yes folks here in Ladson SC where they currently re assemble them...the E-Sprinter will be here....and 4x4...it would be logical to assume parts previously made in Europe some will be tendered out right here in North America..
Like they did with the Transit and Promaster
With Sprinters now going to be built here in the US....yes folks here in Ladson SC where they currently re assemble them...the E-Sprinter will be here....and 4x4...it would be logical to assume parts previously made in Europe some will be tendered out right here in North America..
Like they did with the Transit and Promaster
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To counter balance Turtle....Companies are out there to make money and thats the bottomline....and if pushed too far they will just close shop here completely and screw the US 100%....nothing made here
Anyone who thinks that 15 dollar an hour minimum wage is going to be fabulous, got big news. These trade agreements will basically kill that or just look at Seattle. They went a couple of bucks and all kinds of layoffs, reduction in hours, and automation. It is no longer a US economy. It is a global economy.
Ahh I see I looked at quite a few pages on line and all I could gather was trade is good but free trade bad.
OVM I think some of the innovation that has come over time, has also been a factor.
But most of the jobs created in Ontario the last 1/4 were mostly the service industry... The minimum wage types $12.50 up there .... There has been no loss of jobs in that sector... Just growth... Don't let the conservatives fool ya... It's actually a good thing
I think North American not with a certain flag.
Better the parts and the assembly be on this continent then elsewhere ...a strong North America will make us all stronger.
Better the parts and the assembly be on this continent then elsewhere ...a strong North America will make us all stronger.
Minimum wage people are a lot of single parent moms and students being heavily subsidized ... A better wage will minimize this... Less subsidy for the working poor and maybe some students not so far in debt with student loans
Not seeing it so far.
Early Returns From Seattle's $15 Wage Experiment
As for Canada, after a quick look, I don't see anything that supports it as being successful. Maybe you have something to support "its a good thing". Many times there may not be a loss of the actual job, but a reduction in hours.
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I just remember reading the jobs report...and it gave how many new jobs and what sector they were created....
when I go to visit I don't see any evidence of mass closures..empty commercial property....where thing when I left when it was 8.00 an hr is still operating....
Dave why not let the corporations pay?....why be so opposed...many of those who work down here are on food stamp subsidy...the $$$$ will settle in and the big business will adapt...and I agree with Trump the States should be doing this as every local economy is different....minimum wage should be a state issue...
To Add again Canada's Constitution is applied:
Under the Canadian Constitution, the responsibility for enacting and enforcing labour laws, including the minimum wage, rests with the ten provinces as well as the three territories which have been granted this power by federal legislation. Some provinces allow lower wages to be paid to liquor servers and other gratuity earners or to inexperienced employees.
Also Dave in Ontario..EVERY worker gets 2% of their weekly gross added in for vacation pay as mandated by law....it usually works out to 2 weeks/4% paid vacation every year...
From Employment standards Act Ontario
Vacation pay must be at least four per cent of the "gross" wages (excluding any vacation pay) earned in the 12-month vacation entitlement year or stub period (where that applies).
4% assumes a 2 week vacation time or 2% week
the vacation pay is paid by employer as well...
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There is a federal minimum wage and most states have one of there own. The states can't go below the federal minimum but they can go over it. But yes that should be up to the states.
In Canada the federal minimum was like $4.50 an hr last time I looked hasn't changed in 20 years..lol
Federal wage only applies to federal employees in Canada