Planned Parenthood's Problem vs. Capitalism

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I say why complicate the simple? Ocare is suppose to provide all of these services except abortions. Taxpayer funds aren't needed. Let them stay open with private money. Not suppose to be using taxpayer funds for abortions any way except in limited cases.

Obamacare doesn't provide any services, it merely requires insurance plans to cover them. That doesn't equal the convenience and affordability of PP clinics, from the perspective of one who has used both for care.
Even when I worked at a major hospital and had great insurance, I found the local PP clinic far more accessible, [much quicker appts], affordable, and particularly welcoming & comfortable than any private doctor's office.
Since you've never had a mammogram, you probably didn't know that it usually meant the difference between getting it and dreading [and procrastinating] it.
PP does not use public funds for abortion [which seems unfair: public funds are used for many things people find objectionable and morally indefensible] and we can be sure they are closely monitored for any deviations - the Republican conservatives see to that.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
The problem is, taxpayers subsidize Obamacare which provides those services. If they want "convenience" or something else, it is still available. Just shouldn't be on the taxpayers dime since they are already paying for it once.
I think that is what you aren't realizing. Since the government requires those services be provided by insurance carriers, they must provide it. If they can't afford it, then taxpayers subsidize their plan so they can. That is the whole purpose (albeit flawed) of Ocare.
 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
How amusing, trashing Fox News and then using Huffington Post as a credible source. What's not mentioned in all of the cited article is that ACORN was cleared of charges that they mishandled federal funds. Conveniently omitted is any reference about their convictions for election fraud. In several cases the ACORN workers even pleaded guilty after being caught red-handed on video. It's likely the same fate will befall these body part brokers, in spite of all the squealing by the liberal politicians, the MSM and efforts by the high dollar crisis management team hired by PPH to put out the fires. IMHO, PPH should be able to continue to do business as usual - just without our tax dollars for the financial support of their abortion business. They make a healthy profit for a "non-profit" organization, and they could certainly survive a substantial cut in taxpayer funding. This a govt spending cut that's entirely justified.
(Bold emphasis mine)


As stated in the OP, it's my opinion that if a woman wants to have an early-term abortion - so long as it's legal - she should be able to do so. It's also my opinion that the woman should be able to SELL - if she so chooses - these tissues to labs or individuals who use them for research or medical procedures. To simply turn them over to PPH or some other organization without value received and allowing them to profit from their use is absurd.

I had to use a source other than the right wing sites you prefer, as none of them mentioned the investigations that cleared ACORN, naturally.
After all the dust cleared, there were some ACORN workers found guilty of various charges [many turned in by ACORN itself], but how many private companies are driven into bankruptcy by the misdeeds of some employees? None of them - they pay a fine [without admitting guilt] and return to business as usual.
ACORN itself was found guilty of exactly one charge [a pay for completed voter registration cards turned in by workers deal], and fined $5000. Big freaking deal. Especially since the registration cards in question were never even alleged to be fraudulent - it's just against the law to pay someone to get them.
PP has nothing to defend - what they did and do is entirely legal. It's just that conservatives don't like it, and they cannot accept that people don't agree with them. Rejected by legislators [as they just were in the Senate] they will try again. And again. Ad infinitum.
Because with all the serious problems we face in education, employment, taxes, infrastructure deficits - this is what the Republicans have time and energy to attend to. Bravo. :rolleyes:
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The problem is, taxpayers subsidize Obamacare which provides those services. If they want "convenience" or something else, it is still available. Just shouldn't be on the taxpayers dime since they are already paying for it once.
I think that is what you aren't realizing. Since the government requires those services be provided by insurance carriers, they must provide it. If they can't afford it, then taxpayers subsidize their plan so they can. That is the whole purpose (albeit flawed) of Ocare.

What insurance companies [and the Obama administration] consider "affordable" is out of reach for many lower income women. An insurance plan has deductibles, which deter women from getting preventive care [mammograms, Pap smears] because they can't cover the out of pocket. Many doctors [most of whom are allied with a major healthcare provider] won't even accept Medicaid, or many insurance plans.
Low income women need PP, and those are exactly the women who should not be having babies - just saying. If the efforts to defund it succeed, the rate of unintended pregnancies will go up [a lot!] and so will the cancers that don't get caught in time. [Also pretty expensive to treat]
Defunding them would be pretty damned expensive in years to come, and who will pay for that mistake?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
PP does not use public funds for abortion

If the efforts to defund it succeed, the rate of unintended pregnancies will go up

Don't kid yourself, Planned parenthood absolutely uses public funds for abortions. They don't show it in the accounting books, but if it weren't the for the public funds, then their private funds would have to be used for the abortions. The public funds is what allows them to use the private funds for abortions. Remove the taxpayer funding and either abortions stop or the other services stop.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Turtle is correct with regards to the funding. Just follow the money. Have to go with Hillary on this one :eek:. "the videos are disturbing". You say they did nothing wrong, but then why did they apologize? A thought to ponder. More will come out as they are in the infancy of these investigations.
But that aside, PP is basically a liberal religion. Mine as well call it what it is. They should enjoy the same tax exempt status that other religions do. Just no funding from the taxpayer. If it is a worthy cause just as churches do, they can raise the funds from people that support that position. Nothing complicated and no one denied. And again, taxpayers are subsidizing the medical components already through insurance.
 

Windsor

Veteran Expediter
Don't kid yourself, Planned parenthood absolutely uses public funds for abortions. They don't show it in the accounting books, but if it weren't the for the public funds, then their private funds would have to be used for the abortions. The public funds is what allows them to use the private funds for abortions. Remove the taxpayer funding and either abortions stop or the other services stop.
Turtle Do you have someone on the inside that gave you this information? You know for a fact that they use taxpayers money to perform abortions? I know, you can't reveal your source.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I don't think you would have to know "someone on the inside". It is simple, without taxpayer money, they say they couldn't operate. So they must be using it to perform abortions as that is their primary function. If not, we are way over paying for just medical services that are already covered through insurance. Again, just follow the money.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Turtle Do you have someone on the inside that gave you this information? You know for a fact that they use taxpayers money to perform abortions? I know, you can't reveal your source.
What Dave said. My "source" is an objective viewing and simple math. Planned Parenthood receives one third of its operations funds from the government (Medicaid and Title X funding). Yet they say they only spend 3% of their funds on abortions, and only 10% of clients get abortions, and in the next breath they say without federal funding they can't operate at all. The math doesn't add up. Two years ago the GAO busted them straight up for spending millions of Title X money on promoting abortion as part of a family planning program.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
A 5th video has been released showing a PPH official discussing not only altering the procedures but also budgeting for "intact fetal cadavers". Some people can say these quotes are edited and the quotes are "taken out of context", but one has to wonder under what context these quotes would be considered acceptable? Regardless, money is a major consideration when these PPH people are discussing these fetal cadavers and their various parts.
Another Planned Parenthood executive has been caught on video discussing the prices for the bodies of unborn babies, noting that “it’s all just a matter of line items” for “intact fetal cadavers” or dissections from them.

It’s the fifth video in a series being released by the Center for Medical Progress, which set up a fake company and sent investigators undercover into Planned Parenthood abortion businesses to investigate whether body parts were being sold.

Under federal law, it’s illegal to buy or sell body parts of the unborn.

The latest interview was with Melissa Farrell, of the Planned Parenthood of the Gulf Coast, one of the biggest Planned Parenthood affiliates in the country.

When asked by the investigators about purchasing parts, and whether they could be obtained intact, she explains, “If we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, we can make it part of the budget that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this. It’s all just a matter of line items.”

http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/08/5th-v...ks-intact-fetal-cadavers/#lKqDtK7U6uvqAl67.99
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I don't think you would have to know "someone on the inside". It is simple, without taxpayer money, they say they couldn't operate. So they must be using it to perform abortions as that is their primary function. If not, we are way over paying for just medical services that are already covered through insurance. Again, just follow the money.
One doesn't have to go much farther than PPH's own press releases and annual reports to discover the importance of the abortion segment of their business (bold emphasis mine)
In its latest annual report for fiscal year 2011 to 2012, Planned Parenthood reveals that it performed 333,964 abortions in 2011 – a record year for the organization.

According to annual reports, the organization performed 332,278 abortions in 2009, 329,445 in 2010, making the total number of abortions in three years to 995,687.

Planned Parenthood reported receiving a record $542 million in taxpayer funding, according to a Susan B. Anthony List analysis of the report, in the form of government grants, contracts, and Medicaid reimbursements. The amount is 45 percent of Planned Parenthood’s annual revenue.

Contraceptive services at Planned Parenthood have dropped by 12 percent since 2009, and cancer screening & prevention services have dropped by 29 percent.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...rts-record-year-for-abortions/article/2517801
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
One doesn't have to go much farther than PPH's own press releases and annual reports to discover the importance of the abortion segment of their business (bold emphasis mine)
Yeah, the math just doesn't add up. At the very least the public funds allows the private funds to be freed up to be used for other services, like abortions, which couldn't otherwise be provided without the existence of the public funds. So while they may not use public funds on paper, they without question do so in the applied reality of daily operations.

A 5th video has been released showing a PPH official discussing not only altering the procedures but also budgeting for "intact fetal cadavers". Some people can say these quotes are edited and the quotes are "taken out of context", but one has to wonder under what context these quotes would be considered acceptable? Regardless, money is a major consideration when these PPH people are discussing these fetal cadavers and their various parts.
The problem with all that is what is shown in the raw unedited video that was released. They released the full unedited video with the long-winded description about how PP is profiting from the sale of fetal tissue and how the video documents it. Then the video shows every claim to be a load of crap. I suppose because they thought no one would sit there and watch all that video. Clearly the context in which those quote are considered acceptable is the context of scientific research, and the reason money ($30 to $100 per patient) is such a major concern is because that's what the actual costs are to extract, handle and store tissues that can be viable for research.

Never trust a video that's made by someone with an agenda, especially if that video just so happens to push their agenda forward. But look at all the people who are smart enough to know better who swallowed that video bait hook line and sinker. Rick Perry, Rand Paul, Pil Grim, people who want it to be true, mainly.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I don't think you would have to know "someone on the inside". It is simple, without taxpayer money, they say they couldn't operate. So they must be using it to perform abortions as that is their primary function.
Geezus ... flawed logic much ?

Dave,

That's really what I love about ya: not having any familiarity whatsoever with the actual facts of a matter never prevents ya from climbing out on the limb with the saw and offering up your home-spun version of "the truth" ... despite it being anything but ...

As mentioned previously, abortions constitute about 3% of the total services that PP provides (either by number of services performed, or in funding)

In 2012 (latest year for which data is available) PP provided 327,166 abortions.

But they also provided the following:

STI/STD Testing & Treatment:
STI Tests, Women and Men - 3,728,111
Genital Warts (HPV) Treatments - 42,933
HIV Tests, Women and Men - 697,680
Other Treatments - 584
Subtotal for category: 4,469,308

Contraception:
Reversible Contraception Patients, Women** - 2,129,855
Emergency Contraception Kits - 1,590,133
Female Sterilization Procedures - 821
Vasectomy Patients - 3,749
Subtotal for category: 3,724,558

Cancer Screening and Prevention
Pap Tests - 492,365
HPV Vaccinations - 38,535
Breast Exams/ Breast Care - 549,804
Colposcopy Procedures*** - 37,683
LOOP/LEEP Procedures*** - 2,273
Cryotherapy Procedures*** - 920
Subtotal for category - 1,121,580

Other Women’s Health Services
Pregnancy Tests - 1,148,249
Prenatal Services - 19,506
Subtotal for category - 1,167,755

Total Services Provided - 10,933,67

Services - Planned Parenthood

Technically, they don't use any Federal money specifically to fund abortions since it is against the law ... but all funds are always fungible.

If not, we are way over paying for just medical services that are already covered through insurance..
Not everyone has insurance ... even now.

Again, just follow the money.
Yeah ... that's really great advice.

Here some more for anyone that could use it:

Try to be familiar with the actual facts of a matter before offering statements of the "everybody-knows" variety ... otherwise you might end up looking pretty silly ...
 
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Unclebob

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
If 3 percent of the total funding is used for abortion and 70 percent of the total funding comes from outside sources they would have no problem paying for the abortions from that outside source money.

3 percent of their operating budget is such a small amount that they have no need to shift funds around to use government money for the abortion funding. The other services that they provide are far more costly than the abortion service they provide. Without the government subsidies those services are the ones that would suffer.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Kind of like what the former Governor Ann Richards once said-- Jeb Bush, he can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.:rolleyes:

.
JEB BUSH PULLS A TODD AKIN, HILLARY & CNN POUNCE
A massive unforced error committed by former Florida Governor Jeb Bush Tuesday has not only allowed Hillary Clinton and her media (especially CNN) to go on the offense over the Planned Parenthood issue, it has created a video clip that will haunt Bush and the GOP for as long as Bush is in the presidential race.

During a relaxed forum where Bush was under no pressure and had plenty of time to expand on anything he wanted to discuss, he said, “I’m not sure we need a half-billion dollars for women’s health issues.” Full quote below.

“You could take dollar for dollar — although I’m not sure we need half a billion dollars for women’s health issues — but if you took dollar for dollar, there are many extraordinarily fine community health organizations that exist to provide quality care for women on a wide variety of health issues,” Bush said.

Bush immediately tried to clean up the mess, releasing a statement admitting he misspoke and was talking specifically about defunding Planned Parenthood.

Along with CNN, Hillary Clinton immediately seized the opportunity:

“I would like to ask him, ‘Gov. Bush try telling that to the mom who caught her breast cancer early because she was able to to get screening in time. Was her health not worth the money?” she said. “Tell it to the teenager who avoided an unintended pregnancy because she had access to contraception. Tell it to everyone who was protected by an HIV test.”

Clinton then lit into Bush on Twitter.





America then had a Todd Akin flashback where statements made by a Republican that fit perfectly into the Democrat/Media’s phony War On Women narrative led the 8 a.m. CNN news hour, you know, on the same day we learned Clinton’s email server is under investigation by the F.B.I.

This isn’t Bush’s first mistake either, he JerryLewis-ed all over a simple question about the Iraq War, or The Question He Should Have Been Most Ready To Answer Above All Others.

If we are always cleaning up a mess in aisle four, always on defense, always explaining instead of attacking, we look weak and feckless. That is the real issue, not the misstatement.

Alternately, by seizing on the comment, even unfairly, Clinton looks tough and competent. Whatever the self-destruct mechanism was that misfired in Jeb’s brain, it gave Clinton a low and easy one right over the plate.

No one questions what Bush really meant. That’s not the point. The point is competence. The point is that the supposed grown-ups among the Republican Establishment and the arrogant Consultant Class promised us that they will not make the kinds of mistakes that tell voters the Republican Party is not ready for primetime.

The only good news here is that if Bush is going to self-destruct, it is better that we know that now.

Winners attack. Losers explain. Just ask President Kerry, President McCain, and President Romney.
 
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Windsor

Veteran Expediter
What Dave said. My "source" is an objective viewing and simple math. Planned Parenthood receives one third of its operations funds from the government (Medicaid and Title X funding). Yet they say they only spend 3% of their funds on abortions, and only 10% of clients get abortions, and in the next breath they say without federal funding they can't operate at all. The math doesn't add up. Two years ago the GAO busted them straight up for spending millions of Title X money on promoting abortion as part of a family planning program.
Good job with the math turtle, keep up the good work. The GOP is counting on you.
 

Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
Good job with the math turtle, keep up the good work. The GOP is counting on you.
I don't know why you'd say such a <insert negative pejorative adjective here> thing. Did you not read the "objective view" part?
 
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