American milestone

Windsor · Aug 2, 2015

Since 9/11 74 non military Americans have been killed by terrorist and as of last night 150 thousand Americans have been murdered by gun violence. That's almost twice as many people who were killed in Vietnam. In a 15 year span that seems like a lot of people killed but what do I know. It must be an acceptable amount because we still do pretty much nothing (collectively) as a people to try and find a way to reduce those numbers. Since 9/11 Americans made a lot of changes and sacrifices to try and protect our people from terrorist. The changes have been effective IMO losing only 74 Americans to terrorism. But 150 thousand Americans being killed by gun violence in 15 years! We should be ashamed of ourselves. Something els for the rest of the world to shake there head at us for I guess.

Ragman · Aug 2, 2015

Yep, and the right wing wackos still don't want to even talk about any kind of gun control.

davekc · Aug 2, 2015

No need to talk about gun control. "The horse is already out of the barn". If one wants a gun, they can get it. All the gun control in the world doesn't address that. Not really a political statement, just a reality.
Media, lack of education, and a general dissolve of the family gets you to where you are at today.

Windsor · Aug 2, 2015

davekc said:
No need to talk about gun control. "The horse is already out of the barn". If one wants a gun, they can get it. All the gun control in the world doesn't address that. Not really a political statement, just a reality.
Media, lack of education, and a general dissolve of the family gets you to where you are at today.

You are absolutely correct but sticking our head in the sand isn't the answer either. I just wish everyone could sit down and have real conversations about things that could be done. And not just politicians. The United States has a long history of gun violence and it's going to take years to change our culture. I can handle people with guns shooting other people with guns. I can't handle idiots who didn't get enough atention when they were young walking into schools and theatre's and shooting children.

LDB · Aug 2, 2015

Over 20,000 gun laws isn't gun control? The problem is the dumber than dirt liberal morons who refuse to accept that CRIMINALS don't obey the law. CRIMINALS commit crimes. CRIMINALS don't care if you have over 20,000 gun laws and add thousands more. CRIMINALS only understand one thing and it isn't idiots saying we need to talk about gun control and put "sensible" laws on the books. Imposing more laws on honest citizens who have done nothing wrong will do nothing to reduce crime.

How about those killed in motor vehicles, the 543,407 killed in the years 2000-2013? A far worse problem than even gun deaths. It's time to talk about sensible laws. Fuel tanks must hold no more than 7 gallons. Speed must be electronically limited to 35mph. Cars must be equipped to electronically disable all cellular devices while in motion. Speaking while in a car must be banned. Sensible laws that will stop the carnage. A million people dead every quarter century. We must act to demand sensible vehicle laws.

Ragman · Aug 2, 2015

Did anybody say anything about more laws? How about talking about effective laws and eliminating those 20000 stoopid laws! But no, the first thing the wacko right does is say NO!!!! They don't even want to have a conversation about the subject.

davekc · Aug 2, 2015

There is really no conversation because there isn't any resolve unless you lengthen prison sentences. Anything else is window dressing. Everyone remembers "Fast and Furious". We sell illegal guns to Mexico so they can sell them back to us. Government isn't the answer. There will always be crazy people.

Ragman · Aug 2, 2015

davekc said:
There is really no conversation ............

No Dave, there is conversation. We're having one right now.
The problem I have is with those that don't want to join or silence us.

muttly · Aug 2, 2015

Other than what Davekc listed, our country's immigration policy in the past 45 years also has contributed to the rise in gun violence. We've allowed too many immigrants into the U.S. Too many to absorb, while at the same time trying to provide jobs for our native born citizens. Many of those jobs are lower paying, entry level jobs that our younger population need while entering the workforce and learning a skill. Many of them are minorities.
The highest level of gun violence is between the ages of 15-25 yrs old.

The national crime bill of 1994 is an example of a 'collective approach' to reduce gun violence. It has played a role in the reduction of gun violence in the past 20 years. More police on the streets, stiffer penalties for criminals, longer incarceration, and more proactive policing in many communities has reduced the gun violence. But the things I just listed are done out of necessity because of the failures in our education system, and the lack of jobs for the people who need them most,( exacerbated by the U.S. Immigration policy)that contribute largely to those who commit the most gun violence.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...n-in-my-mind-illegal-immigrantion-hurts-jobs/

LDB · Aug 2, 2015

So every current gun law is stupid? We have 20,000 laws, all bad? Criminals are going to obey the new laws?

Or maybe it's time to make the consequences severe enough for violating the current laws that most of the criminals will no longer risk the punishment. The FAR more likely and workable solution.

And aren't we going to push for the sensible motor vehicle laws and modifications to save over 3 times as many people?

muttly · Aug 2, 2015

Ragman said:
Did anybody say anything about more laws? How about talking about effective laws and eliminating those 20000 stoopid laws! But no, the first thing the wacko right does is say NO!!!! They don't even want to have a conversation about the subject.

The stupid laws would be certain drug offenses. They should be changed. But if we are talking about reducing sentencing for violent crimes be prepared for an uptick in violent crime. Just in the past couple years in the Detroit area there have numerous violent crimes committed by parole violators, probation violators, and criminals let out of jail too early.

Ragman · Aug 2, 2015

I don't know the answers, but we, as a society, must be willing to talk about effective gun control. What we have now is a collection of idiotic laws that don't work.

LDB · Aug 2, 2015

That's the thing though. We have some idiotic gun laws, like the one just enacted in L.A. outlawing standard capacity magazines. It isn't a need for effective gun control. It's a need for effective consequences, severe enough to be too fearful to risk. That is the only solution that will work. Onerous restrictions on honest citizens aren't the answer.

Now, when are we installing your new 7 gallon fuel tank, cellular immobilizer and 35mph speed limiter?

aristotle · Aug 2, 2015

Here's a conversation starter: we, law-abiding gun owners, aren't surrendering our guns. Too many people, mostly under age 40, would kill an innocent person to buy their next drug fix. There is a massive shift away from respect for law and order, away from respect for life itself, among our younger generation. DaveKC is correct. Dissolution of the family over the last 50 years has wreaked social chaos throughout our nation. A child growing up feeling he or she has no value will place no value on the lives of others. If you were blessed to be raised in a loving family imbued with kindness, respect and basic decency... you have already won life's lottery.

Ragman · Aug 2, 2015

LDB said:
... It's a need for effective consequences, severe enough to be too fearful to risk. That is the only solution that will work. Onerous restrictions on honest citizens aren't the answer.

The above is all true. Now we need to get our illustrious leaders to craft solutions to the problems without playing the partisan games.

davekc · Aug 2, 2015

Well, there may be some positive movement. Take the low offense drug user and get them out of jail to free up room for some of the ones killing and or shooting people. A five year or more sentence for someone with a joint or a pill is silly.

LDB · Aug 2, 2015

Ragman said:
The above is all true. Now we need to get our illustrious leaders to craft solutions to the problems without playing the partisan games.

You did notice where it said severe enough to be too fearful to risk? I suspect when a sufficiently severe punishment is suggested you'll suddenly change your tune.

Ragman · Aug 2, 2015

LDB said:
You did notice where it said severe enough to be too fearful to risk? I suspect when a sufficiently severe punishment is suggested you'll suddenly change your tune.

If it's effective and fair, I'll be for it, if not .......well ya know where I stand.

LDB · Aug 2, 2015

Guaranteed effective and completely fair to anyone who doesn't accidentally commit a felony with a firearm since it would be known by everyone.

Moot · Aug 2, 2015

aristotle said:
Here's a conversation starter: we, law-abiding gun owners, aren't surrendering our guns. Too many people, mostly under age 40, would kill an innocent person to buy their next drug fix. There is a massive shift away from respect for law and order, away from respect for life itself, among our younger generation. DaveKC is correct. Dissolution of the family over the last 50 years has wreaked social chaos throughout our nation. A child growing up feeling he or she has no value will place no value on the lives of others. If you were blessed to be raised in a loving family imbued with kindness, respect and basic decency... you have already won life's lottery.