Continuous DEF Problems with Sprinters

fenderbender

Rookie Expediter
Here's an article I posted on linked in on Apr 24th this year...
To be fair we actually had a couple of them reach the 150,000 mile mark without too many problems however, 2 out of the total number is not exactly stacking the odds in anyones favor. If you haven't had any problems with your post 2008 model yet, just give it a little more time.


The Fatal Flaw of Mercedes Benz Sprinters

Apr 24, 2015
This article is my personal opinion, based upon my experiences with Mercedes Benz Sprinter vans. Please understand that these vehicles are used in a commercial trucking application with annual average mileages exceeding 100,000 miles, and that I am not an automotive or diesel expert. The majority, but not all of the problems occurring with these vehicles occurred after the initial 100,000 miles. It is my belief that the problems I have experienced, will occur with a vast majority of every Sprinter as the mileage of each vehicle approaches 120,000 miles. Only 3 vehicles have reached 150,000 miles without serious charges for maintenance.to the EGR-DEF- exhaust system.

Over the past 7 years I have owned a total of 47 Sprinters. I own an expedited trucking company and keep detailed maintenance and repair records on every vehicle. These records are available to Mercedes Benz if desired. This article is being written to warn potential buyers of this vehicle of the fatal flaw hidden in each of these vehicles.

Prior to 2008, when the United States Government mandated diesel exhaust regulations, the Sprinter, manufactured by Mercedes Benz and sold as a Dodge was a real workhorse. These vehicles performed admirably, providing us with lifetime expected mileages of 500,000 and more. The cost for maintaining these vehicles while slightly higher than their American made counterparts made up for these differences with their reliability and long term service.

Since 2008 Mercedes Benz developed an extremely complex and expensive exhaust system to comply with our government regulations. Prior to entering the exhaust system the fumes from the engine pass through an EGR valve. The exhaust system is comprised of a CDI (control unit) which monitors and actuates the sensors and valves in the exhaust system; a DEF pump. A DEF tank, a DEF temp sensor, a DEF level sensor and an SCR control unit with actuators and sensors. These items a located under the hood. The actual exhaust system has three major components; the OXI-Cat and DPF section and two SCR Cat sections. The OXI-Cat section has an oxygen sensor an exhaust temperature sensor and a backpressure sensor. There is a N0x sensor and a dosing valve between the OXI-Cat section and the first SCR Cat section. In the first SCR Cat section there is another temperature sensor, and the last SCR section has one more N0x sensor. Once the exhausted fumes and particles have passed through this area they are passed through a particulate filter.

If any of these parts fails prepare to pay as little as $600 for a N0x sensor (there are two), or approximately $800-$1000 for an EGR valve, to a couple of thousand for a SCR catalytic converter (there are two) or a particulate filter (thankfully only one).

In addition to the complexity of the system, you now must deal with each dealership and their pricing for parts and services. Sprinters are serviced by Mercedes Benz dealerships across the country. An oil change can cost as little as $170 at one dealership to as much as $400 by many others. The repairs to your exhaust system can vary almost as much as their prices to perform a simple oil change.

Further complicating the problems with this vehicle is the lack of reliability to the repairs made by each dealership. We have had numerous “repairs” performed at various dealerships at costs of $2000, only to have the engine light appear again within a few hundred miles. Then when taken to another dealership the “problem” is diagnosed as another sensor or valve and once again we have been charged up to $2000. Mercedes Benz diagnoses of the check engine light are unreliable and many times we have been charged for repairs that do not resolve the problem.

If the system becomes completely clogged and the entire system needs replacement, prepare to pay approximately $6000. You read that correctly…$6000.

Mercedes Benz Sprinter fatal flaw is directly related to the components involved with their exhaust system. The cost in maintaining and repairing these vehicles is a staggering average of .10 cents per mile. Compare that figure to less than two cents a mile for that of their American counterparts made by Dodge Ram’s ProMaster and Ford’s Transit.

Another contributing factor to Mercedes Sprinter ownership woes, is that Mercedes Benz dealership’s treat the maintenance and repairs of a “commercial vehicle” no differently than their luxury vehicles. Mercedes Benz needs develop a dramatically less expensive exhaust system, or replace the diesel engine with an efficient 6 cylinder gas engine if they plan to continue to sell these vehicles as commercial trucks and compete effectively against Ford and Dodge.

If you plan to use your Sprinter as a true commercial vehicle, and plan to drive more than 50,000 miles a year, it would serve you well to look at the Ford Transit or Ram ProMaster. Consider nothing more than the differences in the costs of oil changes…Ford or Ram $30- $40…Mercedes Sprinter $170-$400. Now look at the cost for the first 100,000 miles $300-$400 for the others vs $1700-$4000 for the Sprinter. The differences in other routine maintenance items are relatively consistent with the differences seen for oil changes.

When you couple the excessive charges for routine maintenance with the astronomical charges for repairs to the items associated with the EGR-DEF- Exhaust System, the cost of ownership is an expense that can greatly affect your bottom line. Our expenses for a fleet of 28 Sprinter vans (2012’s & 2013’s) in 2014 was a staggering $270,000! That’s nearly $10,000 per van per year in maintenance and repairs. Can your business afford such an expense? I can assure you that mine cannot. With the odds at 6.4% of a Sprinter reaching 150,000 miles without very costly repairs, we are replacing these vehicles as quickly as we can get the ProMasters and Transits delivered.

While I am informed by my local dealership in Louisville that their sales have never been higher for the first quarter of previous years, it is my belief that when the truth of the fatal flaw is known, their sales will plummet.

Wake up Mercedes Benz! If you’re going to compete in the commercial truck market in the United States, lower your parts and service rates and give us a gas engine without the present diesel exhaust system- The fatal flaw of the Mercedes Benz Sprinter.




By the way, I have cleaned house trading in or selling all my 2012's, 2013 and one 2014...We'll be analyzing the Dodge Promasters and Ford Transits over the next 200,000 + miles for maintenance and repair costs, as well as performance, weight capabilities and trade in value to determine our ROI. I for one will not be buying a Sprinter or any other van with a diesel engine...the problem is not a Mercedes exclusive, but they certainly have the highest cost for repairs of ANY vehicle I've ever owned. And that statement alone should be reason enough for anyone thinking about investing in a Sprinter, to think otherwise. You've been warned by someone who probably has owned more Sprinters than anyone on this forum. What I will not be surprised about is that someone who has never owned a Sprinter reading all the negatives about it, will somehow justify to themselves that all of these issues can be avoided by (insert something nonsensical) and will pull the trigger on a new 2014 or 2015 Sprinter only to find their probable solution to our problems was not the answer. I was able to weather the storm of the nearly 10 cents a mile maintenance and repairs...will you be able to do the same?

Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises, Inc.
Louisville, KY
I Have posted a link to this on my Page as well as several MB FB pages, including my own local dealer. Thanks for giving this account of your experience publicly. Most of us are one to three van operations leased on to a company and we don't have much influence with MB or the dealers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jcochristoph

trobertson

Rookie Expediter
At one time I thought that I may have had Mercedes Benz ear, as I had three meetings with Klaus Tritt, who heads up the US market for Mercedes Benz...that's right Mercedes Benz's top dog for Sprinter in the USA!. Long story short, we were "given" a 2014 4 cylinder extended high roof van for one year at no expense to us, to help us recover some of the multiple charges for the same problems we experienced on our 2008-2010 fleet. Ironically the 2014 experienced a major repair (under warranty) prior to the 20,000 mile mark!

That vehicle was totaled in Texas while our driver was stopped at a traffic light. We were into the sixth or seventh month of the one year commitment, and we had to raise all kinds of hell to get them to provide another vehicle to complete their one year commitment to us.

We were promised that the new 4 cylinder (2014) design had the DEF problems all ironed out and that we would not have any more problems with the exhaust/def/nox sensor/ etc. parts of the vehicle...then within 20,000 the turbo on the 2014 went out!

When challanged about the varience of costs for simple oil changes ($170 - $400+) we were told that the dealerships set their prices individually and that MB has no control over the dealers for service fees.

Remember that I spent more than $270,000 in 2014 on maintenance and repairs, and MB actually stepped up to the plate a few times (not often enough) and stood behind repairs that were made at one dealership, only to fail within a few thousand miles. A dealership stripped the threads of the oil plug from the van and the entire engine had to be replaced...MB did pick up the bill for that...(estimated 18K for a new engine). So without the limited help from MB my cost would have been even higher.

All commercial vehicles are used by the working class. Mercedes Benz Sprinter parts and services should be in line with their American made competitors. Instead they treat the Sprinter as another of their luxury vehicles. Labor rates and parts are no different on the Sprinter than they are on their flagship S550, a car that sells for more than $100K!

WAKE UP MERCEDES BENZ!
WE NEED A 6 CYLINDER GAS ENGINE IN THE SPRINTER.
WE NEED REASONABLE PARTS AND SERVICE RATES.
WE ALSO NEED A TWO REAR WHEEL VAN AT THE ONE TON RATING - CAPABLE OF A MINIMUM OF 4,000#S (not the dually)---dims at wheel wells are too narrow for a std skid

Ford and Dodge have done it! All they need to do is build an extended version capable of the fourth skid!

Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises, Inc.
Louisville, KY
 
  • Like
Reactions: jcochristoph

William Jacobs

New Recruit
I haven't had any problems with the DEF system yet on a 2011.
I ran in some heavy rain in the spring on my way to Thibodeaux LA. When I got there, it was flooded there. Delivered and went to Lake Charles to pick up heading to PA. Rain the whole time. I stopped at the Petro near Vance Al. for some breakfast. Came out started it up and check engine light came on but was not in limp mode. Went to the Mercedes dealer in Hoover AL. Turns out the front Nox sensor wasn't reading. Replaced both. $1400. According to the tech the plug to the wiring harness is water resistant, not water proof. Driving in the high water is probably what did it.
He also said DEF fluid has a shelf life. I always bought the 2.5 gallon jugs at pilot or J. I did buy the last one at Walmart. He said probably about 6 months is the life. Next time I buy some I'll check the box for an expiration date or use by date.
My Mechanic told me that the def is the most vulnerable system on the van and when i buy def throw the left over away .cost of def out weighs reapirs
 

fenderbender

Rookie Expediter
Here's the video I posted to several MB sites, including MB USA. I received a response from the main MB site as well as MB USA, who contacted me and my dealer. My dealer is making a good faith effort to resolve the problem.
They have spent a few days with my van. Currently I have a new SCR CAT that they are not charging me for until we see if it fixes the problem. Can't ask for much more than that. I remain skeptically optimistic.
 

Treadmill

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Here's the video I posted to several MB sites, including MB USA. I received a response from the main MB site as well as MB USA, who contacted me and my dealer. My dealer is making a good faith effort to resolve the problem.
They have spent a few days with my van. Currently I have a new SCR CAT that they are not charging me for until we see if it fixes the problem. Can't ask for much more than that. I remain skeptically optimistic.

I think a professional tune would need to be done to fix your problem.
 

coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I think a professional tune would need to be done to fix your problem.


From what I have seen they have not been able to "break into" the 2010+ computers to be able to tune it.

The only solution is to install an emulator that will "trick" the engine computer to make it think the def system is working correctly. But that solution is not a plug and play solution, pretty involved and still need the Mercedes software to perform certain tests/procedures to make the emulator work.
 

Treadmill

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
From what I have seen they have not been able to "break into" the 2010+ computers to be able to tune it.

The only solution is to install an emulator that will "trick" the engine computer to make it think the def system is working correctly. But that solution is not a plug and play solution, pretty involved and still need the Mercedes software to perform certain tests/procedures to make the emulator work.
From what I know, 2013 is the last yr they could tune it. I know of ones who have had it done over a yr ago and 100k+ miles and no problems to speak of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scottm4211

scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I don't have def but one of my express vans had dpf. A mild tune from efi live and dpf and egr delete around 50k ago. Averages around 26 mpg.
 

fenderbender

Rookie Expediter
My dealer finally may have fixed my issue by replacing one of the SCR CATs. I've been nearly 15K since repair with no issues and considerably less DEF consumption. Fingers are still crossed.
 

William Jacobs

New Recruit
I have 3 2013 Sprinter 2500s. Each of them have been the shop multiple times for the same problems. Chk Eng/Chk DEF/10 Starts Remaining. Mercedes and Freightliner can not seem to solve the problems. They just throw parts at the problem and send you on your merry way, only to have the same problem occur a day/week/month later.

I'm curious how many owners are having the same problems and if anyone has found a satisfactory solution?

Most of the time the parts replaced are (in order) NOX Sensors, Upstream Temp Sensor, DEF Dosing Valve, SCR (catalytic converter) and an occasional EGR Valve. Of course, all of these problems start AFTER the emissions warranty has expired.

I'm giving some thought to a class-action suit, but need to gather a lot of information from as many owners as I can before I could consider moving forward with it.

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions or feedback. Post a reply or send me a PM. I would be happy to talk with anyone who is experiencing the same problems.
My 2015 had CHE lights at 3k and they had to replace the hy temp senors before and after the DPF, it wouldn't re-gen, said problem wouldn't it the parts it was in the reassemble of the truck when it got to SC, the techs are sometimes careless in the handling of the electrical parts ,and are damaging them when the are re installed
 

vandriver2

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Ive got a 2012 and have had no problems with mine. Now I dont know if its me or what but im feeling the take off is a bit sluggish. I change the fuel filter every 10k. Someone told me this about the DEF. Do not feel up your DEF up at the truck stop around back. Ive been doing that. Was told that you have to use the Peak Blue DEF. Its a higher grade and the stuff out of the pumps is a cheap lower grade and will clog up the system. Anyone knows about that please comment on that
I own a 2011 Sprinter. Have for about 3.5 years filled DEF using the DEF Pumps at Pilot/FJ, Petro and Loves. I believe it's $2.75/Gallon at the Big Truck Pumps. It's less expensive there than buying DEF Fluid at Walmart or elsewhere. Have not ever had a problem.
RatDog with the 3 Sprinters...make sure those who are driving your Sprinters NEVER sit and idle them.
 

tolandch

Seasoned Expediter
Any changes on how they try to fix de problems. My second vehicle is on countdown. Bought extended warranty but will see how that works. Lost 25 g's on last vehicle.
 

Treadmill

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Any changes on how they try to fix de problems. My second vehicle is on countdown. Bought extended warranty but will see how that works. Lost 25 g's on last vehicle.
Talked with a buddy of mine who had talked with his MB mechanic and he said they have fixed that countdown problem in the new sprinters with a not so sensitive sensor. He said if this corrected the problem, they would have them for the older ones too.
 

Windsor

Veteran Expediter
Here's a sick idea, remove the newer motor and all the def crapola, and refit with a rebuilt pre def motor, win win, you get a newer unit, with less mile, and a non rusted body, sell the motor and def parts to a newer unit owner for spares! Ok I'll go back to my room now.
You don't need to replace the motor to accomplish that. Motors are 9 to 12 grand.
 

jcochristoph

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
I Have posted a link to this on my Page as well as several MB FB pages, including my own local dealer. Thanks for giving this account of your experience publicly. Most of us are one to three van operations leased on to a company and we don't have much influence with MB or the dealers.
Plan on having more problems in the future. There are plenty of horror stories about these types of problems. I wish you well and hope your problems will not come back or happen again.
 

jsm

New Recruit
Fleet Owner
I have 3 2013 Sprinter 2500s. Each of them have been the shop multiple times for the same problems. Chk Eng/Chk DEF/10 Starts Remaining. Mercedes and Freightliner can not seem to solve the problems. They just throw parts at the problem and send you on your merry way, only to have the same problem occur a day/week/month later.

I'm curious how many owners are having the same problems and if anyone has found a satisfactory solution?

Most of the time the parts replaced are (in order) NOX Sensors, Upstream Temp Sensor, DEF Dosing Valve, SCR (catalytic converter) and an occasional EGR Valve. Of course, all of these problems start AFTER the emissions warranty has expired.

I'm giving some thought to a class-action suit, but need to gather a lot of information from as many owners as I can before I could consider moving forward with it.

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions or feedback. Post a reply or send me a PM. I would be happy to talk with anyone who is experiencing the same problems.
My 2015 had CHE lights at 3k and they had to replace the hy temp senors before and after the DPF, it wouldn't re-gen, said problem wouldn't it the parts it was in the reassemble of the truck when it got to SC, the techs are sometimes careless in the handling of the electrical parts ,and are damaging them when the are re installed
 

jcochristoph

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
I'm looking into same against fca, wonder if we could enjoin both companies in a lawsuit.... I had 2 sprinters before this promaster..... All having constant def problems and no fix..... 2nd sprinter put me in bankruptcy in 2012

Sent from my SM-N920V using EO Forums mobile app
 

jsm

New Recruit
Fleet Owner
I Have Sprinters in my fleet and they have been nothing but POS. For what I have spent in repairs for the DEF system in the past 2 years I could have payed cash for 2 new Sprinters. That expense is the result of having 5 of them in my fleet. If we could get a class action suit going I would be happy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jcochristoph

jsm

New Recruit
Fleet Owner
Fleet owners and single owners of Sprinters need to come together and stick it to Mercedes Benz for ripping us off with continuous repairs on the DEF system including the DPF. No one can make a living with sprinters when everything you make goes to keep them running. Lets team up and get a class action suit going against Mercedes Benz USA...
 
Top