Marco Rubio steps in it.

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Social issues determine who will be the GOP nominee. If we don't get the society right, the whole endeavor is lost. Barack Obama's radical social engineering will take years to correct.

Social issues determine whom the GOP will nominate only because the far right fringe has inordinate power within that closed group. Once nominated, maintaining such far right views guarantees a Democratic victory. .
Conservatives cannot "get the society right", because the society has its' own ideas and beliefs, which change and evolve over time. People are seriously considering electing a woman as POTUS - [the wrong one, but still] that's a far cry from where we were a few decades ago. In terms of history, it hasn't been that long since women weren't allowed to vote!
Conservatives cannot stop the changes they don't like.
 

Windsor

Veteran Expediter
Social issues determine whom the GOP will nominate only because the far right fringe has inordinate power within that closed group. Once nominated, maintaining such far right views guarantees a Democratic victory. .
Conservatives cannot "get the society right", because the society has its' own ideas and beliefs, which change and evolve over time. People are seriously considering electing a woman as POTUS - [the wrong one, but still] that's a far cry from where we were a few decades ago. In terms of history, it hasn't been that long since women weren't allowed to vote!
Conservatives cannot stop the changes they don't like.
Oh but they'll sure try like hell won't they!
The right and the far right aka tea party think they reserve the right to decide how and what America should be. Then they throw the constitution (only when it's convenient for them) in your face and tell us what our founders wanted. That's the exact type of thinking that lead to this country to be formed in the first place. The right think it's only there country and the left just happens to be living here for some reason. And while I'm at it I'm sick of the right thinking they have the moral high ground because they have "Jesus on there side" pretty sure if Jesus were real he would be an extreme far left hippie pot smoking (because it's natural and his dad made it) socialist, without question!
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
I'm not even sure why Obama or Hillary are trying to run things. Clearly everyone knows that the country is supposed to be ran by rich grey haired white guys. Or a Mormon with perfect hair and a billion dollar smile.
Or a woman steeped in corruption.
ImageUploadedByEO Forums1430108017.150508.jpg
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
True, your right. Now if she went to the Betty ford clinic for cocane abuse and miss managed a MLB team and then became a crappy governor, then she would be ready to lead this country. Until she has a resume like that she needs to go home. When your last name is Clinton then you think your supposed to be president just like if your last name is Bush.

What is your obsession with bringing up Bush? Are you a closeted Bush fan?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Or a woman steeped in corruption.
View attachment 10911
None of the current foreign money scandals surrounding the Clintons are new. Remember all the illegal Chinese money that was given to the Clintons and the subsequent revelations of missile technology showing up in Chinese hands, putting them years if not decades ahead of their existing missile launching capabilities?

If one asks questions about Hillary's accomplishments as SECSTATE, the answer would be that she was able to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for her impending presidential campaign from multiple foreign countries.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes, the awful right (the opposite of both left and wrong), trying to force their way on everyone. It's a daily occurrence for them to demand everyone be armed just because they are intelligent enough to support the second amendment. Imagine, demanding everyone follow their belief. Oh. Wait. No. Sorry, it's the other way around. It's the left that always demands everyone adhere to their beliefs and demands rather than choosing for themselves.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That brings a third party into the situation. Not the same thing as telling me I'm not allowed my right because you don't care for it or from the other direction me telling you do what you wish but I'm not foregoing my right.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
That brings a third party into the situation.
No it doesn't. The right to choose is the right to choose. Anti-abortion conservatives "always demands everyone adhere to their beliefs and demands rather than choosing for themselves." Claiming it's different because it's a third party is nothing more than a rationalization for getting an exception to tell other people what they can and cannot do. Conservatives don't get to be the sole spokesperson for this third party.

Not the same thing as telling me I'm not allowed my right because you don't care for it or from the other direction me telling you do what you wish but I'm not foregoing my right.
Well, you're reformulated your statement into a different context now. But now that you have put it in the context of rights, it's exactly the same thing. If you look at the history of abortion you'll notice that it was an uncontested natural right for thousands of years and it has only been relatively recently where conservatives decided to take that right, along with the right to privacy away. Row v Wade restored both the right to privacy and the right to choose.

Women around the world have used abortion to control their reproduction at every point in history, and in every known society. In the US abortion was widely and freely commonplace until about 1880 when states started banning it. Anti-abortion legislation was part of a backlash championed by religious conservatives against the growing movements for suffrage and birth control in a blatant effort to control women and confine them to a traditional childbearing role. These laws were also a convenient way for the medical profession to tighten its control over women’s health care, as midwives who performed abortions were a threat to the male medical establishment. In addition, the late 1800s saw a declining birthrate among whites, the U.S. government and the eugenics movement were concerned about “race suicide” and wanted white U.S.-born women to reproduce.

So while you want to rationalize a plea for this third party, the entire history of anti-abortion legislation is all about power, control, and telling other people what they can and cannot do.

Conservatives aren't even pro-life, they're anti-abortion. They invented the pro-life nomenclature to demonize the opposition, because the opposite of pro-live is pro-death, and isn't that awesome. But they're really anti-abortion, and there's a difference. Pro-life means encouraging and celebrating life, but that's not what pro-lifers do. They're anti-abortion, which is power and control and telling other people what they can and cannot do (authoritarian). And once you realize that pro-lifers are simply anti-abortion, that they're pro-telling other people what to do, then there's no incongruity between "pro-life" and "pro-death penalty" because it's the same thing, power, control, and authoritarian arrogance. And it's why after failing to convince women they shouldn't have an abortion, that conservatives are trying to force others to live by their views by re-legislating authoritarian anti-abortion laws.

Yes, both the right and the left are in a never ending tug-of-war in trying to force their way on everyone. Neither side has a monopoly on it, and both sides are nearly always wrong. They only time either side is right is when you get about an 80% agreement all around.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Supposed to say your prerogative. Not sure what happened in the translation. Right is fine too.
 
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aristotle

Veteran Expediter
The US Supreme Court is hearing oral arguments today which may settle the homosexual marriage façade. At the very least, let's hope SCOTUS acknowledges marriage law is delegated to the States. Failing that, the States can propose an amendment to the US Constitution to reaffirm marriage as only a union between one man and one woman. The Leftists are attempting to destroy Western civilization at the cellular level by corrupting the established model of marriage which has stood 2000 years.
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
Two entirely different subjects. No connections what so ever.

That's your opinion and I respect it. I believe however they have a moral connection. A confusing moral connection. Too kill or not to kill! Pick one for convenience and the other because it's not right. There in lies the dilemma. When is it ok morally to take a life. I have a hard time understanding how someone could be pro life and for the death penalty or vise versa, pro abortion and against the death penalty.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I have a hard time understanding how someone could be pro life and for the death penalty or vise versa, pro abortion and against the death penalty.
Read what I wrote in Post #190 - pro-life really isn't pro-life - it's anti-abortion and pro-telling other people what to do. Once you realize that pro-life is actually pro-telling other people what to do, then you'll see that pro-death penalty is along those same lines and isn't morally confusing at all.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Pro-life and pro-death penalty is pro innocent life and pro death penalty for those 100% guilty of heinous crimes and definitely no longer innocent.
 

paulnstef39

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
l am pro-choice and anti-abortion. You can choose to have one because it's not my business. Personally l am against it under most circumstances, but it isn't my job to judge or control you. Death penalty vs life in prison. l am for whatever is cheapest for the state; in certain instances cruel and unusual would be fine with me.
 
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