The State of Hate
- Thread starter Ragman
- Start date
Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice", no matter how much you'd like to believe that. Religion is, [whichever one of thousands you choose] and those who don't choose yours should not be ruled by it. It would be as logical as being ruled [with the force of law behind it] by someone else's deeply held superstition.
The US was founded to escape the tyranny of imposed religion, which makes this argument literally incredible.
So it's not fine to tell someone thanks but no thanks causing them to go elsewhere but it is fine to force someone against their will to do something. That makes sense. That isn't any form of discrimination, putting one person above another.
It's not against their will - they freely agreed to abide by the laws when they opened a business serving the public. If they can't abide that, they have alternatives, such as a business that is not open to the public. Their choice.
This bill, unlike the previous ones [in other states] and the Federal bill, specifically left out sexual orientation, meaning it isn't protected. Business owners and landlords can refuse people because they believe they are gay.
That makes it exactly what this bill is for - even Pence refuses to address the issue, saying "adding protection for gay people is not my agenda". Because it's his agenda, [courtesy of ALEC] not the voters'.
Mayor of Indianapolis defies the govenor
http://aattp.org/mayor-of-indianapo...scrimination-by-christian-businesses-in-city/
http://aattp.org/mayor-of-indianapo...scrimination-by-christian-businesses-in-city/
Business owners don't get to choose which laws they agree with. A landlord can't say he won't comply with the Fair Housing Act anymore than a retail store can deny service to someone because the store owner is a bigot.
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Being opposed to homosexuality is a values judgment, plain and simple. The homosexual community, understanding their lifestyle choices are unnatural, resent and resist any attempt to be judged as different from normal relationships. The abnormal/unnatural acts cannot be normalized. Mostly, they do not want to be subjected to judgment. Sorry, no one can, with a straight face, tell children that homosexuality is a natural, normal state of being. The Left needs to stop lying to children on this matter, it is a great disservice to future generations.
"... the facts don't paint the actual picture..." Now that's downright ROTFLMAO funny right there, but not surprising since it's the usual liberal position to ignore the FACTS when they aren't in sync with their agenda. Only the objection of the vocal minority counts, not the will of the vast majority of the voters - yeah, right on! If it weren't for the gaping majorities the Republicans hold in both houses of the IN legislature there might be some room for doubt.
Regarding that "recent" Ball St. Univ. Poll: it was taken in 2012, and 602 adults were contacted - hardly a significant statistical sampling of a state with 6.597 Million residents.
http://bowencenterforpublicaffairs..../2013/12/HS2012-HOOSIER-SURVEY-2012-FINAL.pdf
Discrimination is wrong no matter what the case. What is never wrong is justice. Now what is justice? what is right? what is wrong? For the Christian people to say they won't serve a gay person for what ever the reason seems hypocritical to me. If it is because of the sin of homosexuality then why serve anyone as all have came short of the Glory of God Romans 3:23. Maybe I'm totally missing the point but both sides are at fault it seems to me. If someone doesn't want to sell someone a cake because of how they are, it seems to be their loss in my opinion... other side is why spend the time and effort to make them do something they don't wana? If you take a Christian stance on the issue, you never see Christ force someone to be Christian or have Christian values. So why is all the fighting and hating going on? Why are both sides fighting about what their "rights" are? If both sides simply followed the example of Christ it seems the issue would disappear would it not? Is not the cry God is love and loves everyone? hmm well if thats true and thats the God we believe in or want to believe in then why don't we follow that example? Hypocrisy is the biggest danger to the health of Christianity it seems to me.
It seems quite simple if you look through the Bible you will see many warnings about the Spirit warring with the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit. So if this is the issue then the flesh must be winning on both sides since the "Christians" are too proud or "good" to do work for sinners and the other side is living in sin... Is this not exactly what the Pharisees did to the less than clean Jews or to Gentiles? So after looking at what seems to be the "facts" of people fighting against each other its looks more like the gods battling for control... So if we take this fight to the spiritual side of things then who are we listening too? The flesh or the Spirit of God? If God of the Christians is perfect and Christ was sinless making the perfect sacrifice for all mens sins, then how is it that we all listen to the flesh side of pride, hate, lust, theft, lying etc... instead of love, grace, mercy,long suffering, giving, honesty etc.... Is not one side considered good or unto Godliness and one not good or evil? So which then is the correct side? which side has the "right" to esteem themselves higher than the other? How often do you hear either side give explanation as to why they think they are right? Not just rights or beliefs and such but actual explanations? Like why the Christians don't want people to be different than what they think is morally right. Or why people want to be different than the Christians? If Christians came forth with humble explanation of how the word of God condemns the different lifestyle, and that it will only lead to the second death what argument would there even be? The Christian people are going to have to stop with the "because my idea is the only way" attitude... how in the world do they expect the opposing side to have any interest to be like them or rather be like Christ if it is shown through hatred and no understanding whatsoever for sin... same for the other side... why will the Christians accept their lifestyle if it is crammed down their throat with hatred and no understanding? Neither side will budge does not nature show us this? How many times have you seen someone become upset at someone for performing an act of true love? how many times do we react to an act of hatred or something less than love? Until the Christians want to show with urgency and love the danger of living against the Word of God and EXPLAIN that it is not their idea but Gods commands the opposing side will never listen. For quite simply it is not a fight to be fought by flesh and blood but one that is fought by principalities and powers or in simpler terms God vs. Satan... Therefore neither side has any need to judge the other for it is already judged by the Word of God as to what is right and just. The same Word that condemns homosexuality also condemns very much, the judging of someone with a hypocritcal heart... So neither side at the human level can win unless they lose their pride and allow God to work with their heart... It seems to me this isn't about a law that some man made to control other men but about evil trying to over come good thru both sides of the fight.
As I'm sure all of you can see I do consider myself a Christian and I want to clarify this is MY take on the situation being discussed . I do take full responsibility for the things I have said and intended no belittling or hatred towards either side. I'm a sinner just the same as any other man that has ever walked or will walk this earth. I'm open to all discussions about anything said in my post or about God. If you feel to say it in private thats fine as well just PM me.
God bless John3:16, Acts 2:38
It seems quite simple if you look through the Bible you will see many warnings about the Spirit warring with the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit. So if this is the issue then the flesh must be winning on both sides since the "Christians" are too proud or "good" to do work for sinners and the other side is living in sin... Is this not exactly what the Pharisees did to the less than clean Jews or to Gentiles? So after looking at what seems to be the "facts" of people fighting against each other its looks more like the gods battling for control... So if we take this fight to the spiritual side of things then who are we listening too? The flesh or the Spirit of God? If God of the Christians is perfect and Christ was sinless making the perfect sacrifice for all mens sins, then how is it that we all listen to the flesh side of pride, hate, lust, theft, lying etc... instead of love, grace, mercy,long suffering, giving, honesty etc.... Is not one side considered good or unto Godliness and one not good or evil? So which then is the correct side? which side has the "right" to esteem themselves higher than the other? How often do you hear either side give explanation as to why they think they are right? Not just rights or beliefs and such but actual explanations? Like why the Christians don't want people to be different than what they think is morally right. Or why people want to be different than the Christians? If Christians came forth with humble explanation of how the word of God condemns the different lifestyle, and that it will only lead to the second death what argument would there even be? The Christian people are going to have to stop with the "because my idea is the only way" attitude... how in the world do they expect the opposing side to have any interest to be like them or rather be like Christ if it is shown through hatred and no understanding whatsoever for sin... same for the other side... why will the Christians accept their lifestyle if it is crammed down their throat with hatred and no understanding? Neither side will budge does not nature show us this? How many times have you seen someone become upset at someone for performing an act of true love? how many times do we react to an act of hatred or something less than love? Until the Christians want to show with urgency and love the danger of living against the Word of God and EXPLAIN that it is not their idea but Gods commands the opposing side will never listen. For quite simply it is not a fight to be fought by flesh and blood but one that is fought by principalities and powers or in simpler terms God vs. Satan... Therefore neither side has any need to judge the other for it is already judged by the Word of God as to what is right and just. The same Word that condemns homosexuality also condemns very much, the judging of someone with a hypocritcal heart... So neither side at the human level can win unless they lose their pride and allow God to work with their heart... It seems to me this isn't about a law that some man made to control other men but about evil trying to over come good thru both sides of the fight.
As I'm sure all of you can see I do consider myself a Christian and I want to clarify this is MY take on the situation being discussed . I do take full responsibility for the things I have said and intended no belittling or hatred towards either side. I'm a sinner just the same as any other man that has ever walked or will walk this earth. I'm open to all discussions about anything said in my post or about God. If you feel to say it in private thats fine as well just PM me.
God bless John3:16, Acts 2:38
An actual Christian has entered the ring!
Now she tweeted that her twitter account had been hacked. And then that tweet was deleted. Lol.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/labo...being-nazis-on-twitter-claims-she-was-hacked/
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
They are very few and far between these days ... a rare commodity.
Don Lemon practically had a meltdown on CNN. Pushed a false narrative on Ferguson, Missouri and now he just can't handle the good people of Indiana expressing their will through the legislative process. Not to be outdone, Chris Cuomo, another Obama fainter, nearly wet his pants in indignation. The Indiana legislature cannot act to protect religious freedoms because CNN says so!!! Expect CNN, MSNBC and other leftwing mouthpieces to be in Indianapolis to upstage the Final Four in coming days. Dang it, they thought they had this matter nailed down.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
How many times can you possibly be wrong and still comment like you speak the truth or know any facts? Pence has stated point blank that this bill is not for discrimination and said that no one should be discriminating against gays. They have already said that they are going to clarify the matter. Stop parroting what you read on Facebook and try watching the actual interviews so you actually know what was adressed and what wasn't. Just watch the ABC News interview of Pence or any other interviews with reps.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
OH WOW! Another meme that makes absolutely no sense because it is comparing two completely different things. SO TRUE!! Ugh
paullud
Veteran Expediter
I can see why a Christian wouldn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding. It's the idea that they are participating or helping in something that they view as against their beliefs. The issue of homosexuality with Christians is as clear as mud. From what I have researched for verses in the New Testament against homosexuality it seems that there is a lot of confusion. When it's not clear I defer to the things that are very clear, like not judging. If you follow the Bible it's clear that it is not our job to judge so we need to stop. I think if homosexuality was really that important or a sin then we would have clear guidance as we do with so many other things.
This I agree with but where do you draw the line? If they are being forced to say that gay marriage is God ordained or that it isn't a sin then that is different in my opinion. If we can't make a cake for someone why would we pay our taxes to the government? They use some of that to kill people, train people to kill people etc. Is this not sin? So the baking of the cake isn't really the issue it seems to me... I haven't been in any of these situations first hand I only know what the news and hearsay has told me. So I don't know if the people are being forced to say that gay marriage is okay or if they are simply being forced to bake a cake. I might be parting hairs here.
As to confusion 1Cor14:33 says For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Romans Chapter 1 the latter part of the chapter talks very plainly about what isn't acceptable in the sight of the Lord. Satan is very much at work here in this world. The Christians can't just bicker and fight with the opposing side. They MUST through the leading and indwelling of the Holy Spirit spread the message of God that all who do not accept the gift of His only begotten son Jesus Christ, and follow His commandments are condemned already and shall not have life eternal.