Asian Carp

[OntarioVanMan]

hey Layout...you edited the wrong post!! *LOL*

hey we just tossed them and the boat people would run and pick them nup...my dog wouldn't even touch them...

[layoutshooter]

Sorry about that, I meant to hit the "Quote" button!! Old age setting in, eh?

[Slo-Ride]

The problem Greg, is that they will wipe out ALL of the other fish if allowed to do so. They have NO predator. They need to close those locks as you say. That is CHEAP to do. IF those carp get into the Great Lakes Michigan's economy will be hurt MORE than any other of the economies on the Lakes. We have, by far, the MOST to lose. The cost of allowing this to occur is FAR greater than the cost of keeping them out.

Just close the locks, then figure out a way to wipe them out. Nothing that they have tried so far to kill them off has worked.

Can it be really that hard to stop em,,,as with any enemy first thing ya do is stop his exit then attack the enemy all the way back to its source.

[OntarioVanMan]

Sorry about that, I meant to hit the "Quote" button!! Old age setting in, eh?

First sign of sinelity really...*L*

[layoutshooter]

They would be EASY to stop IF we seal off their access to the Lakes. Then NOT re-open those locks UNTIL we have got a better way to keep them OUT of those canals and rivers. We also MUST be looking into a way to rid the Mississippi of them.

[Slo-Ride]

Not sure how but like I said stop their exits.Trap em where they are and go from there.
We are going to spend alot trying to pick em out of each lil area trying to stop the spreading
it seems to me that the fist step would be to stop em from spreading from where they are now.
OVM stated its working up north I dont see why something in order of whats being down up north wont work here????

Well I gotta get rolling ,,See ya

[greg334]

Layout, the problem is we have other issues that should be address within the lakes and especially in this state, like revamping the DNR of this state. The DNR is a mess up cluster**** of an organization which p*sses on land owners.

Shut the canal, use trucks/rail to move the goods and contain the situation. Worry addressed.

The canal is a man made thing, the carp is a man made problem, commerce will survive. The gaming industry here is also dying, so maybe we need to not worry about that and worry about jobs and training and use an easy solution by closing the canal. But also shift some of this money spent on roads and jobs for people who were going to be laid off in the winter time and use it for some real tourist things to attract people to the state - we have NOTHING in this state that people actually want to come here for.

If the fish in the great lakes are in danger, then we need to consider what we are doing wrong as man. We need to address sustainability of fishing outside of the great lakes, why and what happened to allow the release of these fish and correct these problems.

Nature is amazing, there is always some way to fix the problem.

In this case we have been playing God with other things, why not come up with a way alter the DNA or figure out how to sterilize male fish in some of these species lines and let the line die off? We spent how many millions on containment and stupid solutions but altering fish and introducing those fish to mate with existing stocks has worked with other animals in the past.

OVM, They are not like the carp you are thinking about. They are edable and if cooked right taste good. The problem is they are boney like other fish.

[layoutshooter]

Oh, I agree, Greg. Close the canals. Commerce is EASY to fix compared to what will happen if these fish get into the Lakes.

Fixing the DNR will be harder. The head of the DNR is a VERY good and well respected person. I have met her 3-4 times. She is well known to wildlife people, a Michigan native who loves the State and it's natural resources. She is, however, faced with almost an impossible task. How to please everyone and STILL do what is NEEDED to insure sustainable wildlife and fish populations?

Many land owners do NOT want to do what may be needed. It is their RIGHT to do as they please with their land. Rights carry responsibility and not all live up to that.

There has NOT been an increase in hunting license fees for years. They are needed. On the other hand, Michigan is 49th out of the 50 states for NON-hunting and fishing monies being spent for conservation. Right now, Michigan sportsmen are footing MOST of the bill for ALL of the conservation work being done in the State.

Our congress is a waste. City people are allowed to control hunting and fishing regulations WITHOUT paying their fair share or even understanding what the REAL world is about. They can, and have, been able to cancel hunting seasons in Michigan.

We need a NEW agency in Michigan. A Fish and Wildlife agency, split OFF from the DNR. It should NOT be controlled by politicians AT ALL and NOT subject to public goofiness. ALL seasons and laws based solely on REAL science and NOT foolish emotions. Fees assessed to ALL Michigan residents since ALL benefit from robust natural areas.

This will NEVER happen since, for the most part, no one in Michigan cares EXCEPT for the sportmen.

[Steady Eddie]

They hurt ya too....here is a good video part 1, after it plays you'll see part II

YouTube - Asian Carp Invasion Part I

[layoutshooter]

Several have been hurt by this carp. They "attack" boats, jet skis etc.

[Jack_Berry]

illinois just poisoned about 6 miles of the illinois river to kill what they could. that river that was reversed was the chicago river so the effluent went out the sanitary canal and not to the lake(see link below). hard to envision a problem like asian carp before there was massive international sea commerce to the frt lakes. heck zebra mussels were the last terror back in the 80's and they got slowed down. this will also.

here is a story about that poisoning.

The Associated Press: Single Asian carp found in Chicago-area fish kill

and the opposing view

Lawsuit seeks to keep Asian carp out of Great Lakes | Reuters

i would think if the carp get up the mississippi they will be all over the midwest and then up the missouri and THAT is the longest river in america.


check out this guy and his baseball bat. just like a batting cage.

More bad news (plus a glimmer of hope) about Asian carp | freep.com | Detroit Free Press


just google the news and insert aisian carp.....


o yeah, that chicago river reversal. here it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago...rsing_the_flow

zebra mussle below this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_mussels

gonna hafta change my font color if all the links keep popping up in blue.

[layoutshooter]

Yes, the zebra mussles have slowed down for now. It is unclear what is going on with them. This carp is a real problem. When I was hunting a few weeks ago I was in the company of a DNR bioligist, he is VERY concered.

As far as I have been able to read only ONE of the carp turned up dead in the section they poisoned. Closing the locks for now would cause few problems that are not easily overcome. Keep them out until we can figure out the answer.

Once in it may be too late. It is NOT worth taking the chance. At least in my and many bioligists opinions.

Thanks for the other views, it helps to understand all sides.

[greg334]

Many land owners do NOT want to do what may be needed. It is their RIGHT to do as they please with their land. Rights carry responsibility and not all live up to that.

Layout,
I don't agree, the person at the top is not doing a good job, what needs to be done won't be and the landowner is at the mercy of the DNR, for example wetlands created by changes in the area because of development does not mean that they are wetlands that should fall under the DNR's right to regulate. voluntary restoration of wetlands should but that is and should always be the right of the owner to decide what is done to their property. The right to own and do what you want to do on the property has been circumvented by the rights of the DNR in many many cases.

The wildlife is flourishing, the water game is also on a comeback and when you can fish in places like the Cass river when there were once nothing there to fish, they did their job to restore it but when is enough enough?

Yes hunting fees haven't been raised but they should not. There needs to be a serious revision on how we license and what the state can offer, other states offer lifetime licenses, limits on age (ever been shot at by a 80 year old who could not see but heard something that sounded like a deer?).

Their funding is diverse, they got a lot of federal funds that keep the cost low but they also have fees that you don't see as a sportsman. Their officers can be overzealous at times, and in a few cases don't follow the letter of the law when there is no crime.

The state needs to revamp everything from the top down, the DNR is on place they can improve a lot.

As for the Carp, they closed the canel, poisoned the fish and what did they find?

Well isn't like we are killing things jost to stop a threat that can be stopped other ways? How about closing the canel and fishing the h*ll out of it? There are enough people who need to eat.

[Slo-Ride]

After running thru (and away) from parts of Chicago yesterday
I was noticing what I think maybe some of these canals (ditches).
What I seen was a bunch of listing rusting tubs that looked like they haven't moved in quite awhile,,Piles of debris stacked along the banks,whether it be piles of ashalpt, chunks of concrete,piles of wood,etc etc,,trash floating thru the water. All with no activity of any trade what so ever..No saying there isn't any commerce in those canals but I didn't see any..

[layoutshooter]

Well Greg, we will just have to agree to dis-agree. S.E. Michigan has lost more than 99% of it's wetlands since it's pristine days and the remainder are in great danger of being drained for development. Migrating waterfowl are now starting to pass up the S.E. side of Michigan due to lack of habitat. Most duck numbers are way up over last year but the numbers passing through Michigan are down by a large amount.

Yes, some rivers are cleaned up but even those efforts are under threat by the push for bio-fuels. Fertilizer levels are starting to rise in the Lakes again, NOT a good sign at all.

Remember one thing about the DNR, it is ONLY able to do what the congress allows them to do. They also are often forced by our congress to do things that are NOT good for wildlife OR landowners.

I do think that if you ever had the chance to sit down and talk with Rebecca you MIGHT have a bit of a different insight as to what is happening. It is NOT a simple task.

Keep one thing in mind. She was NOT the choice of our governess. Granholm wanted a true, died in the wool anti-hunter in that job. He is a lawyer with the U.S. Humane Sociaty. Which is one of the biggest anti-hunting/fishing groups in the Nation. We, the sportsmen, put on a letter writing push to get this woman in, she is VERY well repected in her field. We were able to get over 380,000 letters to the governess. Even she could not dismiss that.