[DragonLadyTN]

It's getting close to trade-in time. Is there anyone who has any experience running the 4000 series Mercedes with the new emissions? If so, what are the pro's and con's! Need all the info I can get! Flying blind on this one!

[spudhead911]

I think I read that they will be doing away with the MBE 4000 in 2010. I'm pretty sure I read that the DD15 and DD13 will be replacing it.

I have a 2004 EPA MBE 4000 series engine, I haven't had any problems with it. I know when I ordered my truck the new 2007 EPA engines were just coming out, the cost was about $12k more for it. I have heard that the 2007 EPA MBE 4000 series engine has been working out pretty well so far. Have also heard that the MPG has been pretty good also, somewhere close to 10 MPG at highway speeds, more doing 60MPH and under.

[DragonLadyTN]

Spuds...Thanks..currently we have 6 of the 07's 4000's in the fleet. However can't get my hands on anymore pre-emission engine's. So we are going to have to go with 08's. Not alot of data on the post emission's other then what DD has published. We all know that info is one sided. The pre-emission's have been great, no EGR problems. WOOHOO! Major plus. What my biggest fear is I can't find any practical info from anyone that has run the post-emission engine weather it be 08 or 09. With all the extra stuff hanging off the engine how is impacting the MPG, service..etc. Would be love any imput from anyone who currently has or knows someone with the engine!!!!!


Today's a great day! I'm above the dirt!

[davekc]

I would recommend a little more investigating. I can't remember the source, but several have been plagued with premature component failure due to excessive heat.
Additionally, service is going to be very spotty. When we were looking six months ago, few dealers had techs that could work on them. I am sure that is improving as time goes along, but again, I would really do some research prior to buying.
May be better off with a used one.

[spudhead911]

I think you mean you have the EPA 2004 MBE engines. The EPA 2007 Engines are the ones with the DPFs, they are really the 2008 model year engines, they came out in March of 2007.

When we built our truck in Dec. of 2006, we found out that we couldn't get the 2004 EPA engine in it, there were none left, and the new engine with the DPF would cost us $12k more. It just so happened that the dealer had a truck on order,a 2007 Western Star with a stock 82" sleeper, that had the EPA 2004 engine. So we built our truck, a TVAL unit, on that chassis.

I haven't come across anyone with the new MBE engine. I did talk to the dealership owner who built our truck about the new engines. He said that he hasen't heard of any problems with them, and the fuel mileage was the same if not better than the engine we have. He said it suprised DCT that the engine performed as well as it did. The only down side is the extra price and weight of the newer engine.

I think if I were to buy a new truck now I would go with the new DD15, which replaces the Detroit series 60 engine. If I run into anyone who has the newer MBE 4000, I'll let you know.

[spudhead911]

Originally Posted by davekc

I would recommend a little more investigating. I can't remember the source, but several have been plagued with premature component failure due to excessive heat.
Additionally, service is going to be very spotty. When we were looking six months ago, few dealers had techs that could work on them. I am sure that is improving as time goes along, but again, I would really do some research prior to buying.
May be better off with a used one.

I think the tech problem was the same with all the new EPA engines when they first came out. We were at a shop when a truck with a new Cummins engine came in. The techs just looked at each other, it was the first one any of them had seen, and none of them knew anything about the engine.

all the new engines give off more heat, hence the larger radiators. There are bound to be a few failures with all the engine makes until they get all the bugs worked out.

[DragonLadyTN]

Bugs, is what I'm worried about....in 02 we had a friend with 4 of the International's. Sevice and parts where almost impossible to find....The down time almost put him out of business..We can't afford to be the Orkin Man!! I looks like I have alot of work in the research department ahead of me!


Today is a good day! I'm above the Dirt!

[spudhead911]

Originally Posted by DragonLadyTN

Bugs, is what I'm worried about....in 02 we had a friend with 4 of the International's. Sevice and parts where almost impossible to find....The down time almost put him out of business..We can't afford to be the Orkin Man!! I looks like I have alot of work in the research department ahead of me!


Today is a good day! I'm above the Dirt!

The new engines have been out over a year now, the bugs have been taken care of for the most part. When I bought my truck some people said I would regret using the MBE 4000 series engine, that they were nothing but trouble. I haven't had any problems with the engine to date. Mercedes has been building diesel engines for a very long time. I wouldn't be afraid of building a truck around the newer MBE engine. All the engine maugacturers had a few problems with the newer engines when they first came out.

You are smart to do some research. I think when all is said and done the best bang for your buck will be the DD15. they are coming out with a DD13 also. Cat is going out of the on highway engine business, and their engines are more expensive to maintain. The only Cummins I would pick would be the ISX, I had a cummins ISM in my 2000 model year Century,and the engine blew with just over 500,000 miles on it. I've had the class 7 ISC cummins in my FL70 and that engine blew with just over 200,000 miles on it, thank God it was sttill under warranty. I wouldn't own another cummins.

The Detroit Diesel engines are easy to maintain, cost less to repair, and last for ever.At least in my opinion. The new DD15 engine combines the technology of both the Mercedes Benz and Detroit Diesel engines. Do some research on them, I have been reading about them in the trade publications, and like what I have read.

[D Team Brothers]

I bought a new Western Star and received it in Oct. 08 - with the new MBE4000 in it. I've been in the shop repeatedly for defective engine parts, the last was a O ring near the engine head that reportedly became brittle from the excessive heat caused by the new EPA emission add on. Almost all the repairs required the techs to call DD on every move they made, even the latest repair - due to lack of experience with the new engine. Western Star dealerships were even told not to work on the engine, sent/tow the truck to a DD engine shop! Almost every repair took longer than necessary because no one had spare parts and everything neeaded to be shipped in. My last complaint about this engine is the fuel mileage; I have to keep the speed under 63MPH to get 8.5 MPG. My other trucks with pre-emission engines get 11+mpg. I'd wait for the DD15. Jack

[highway star]

Originally Posted by D Team Brothers

I bought a new Western Star and received it in Oct. 08 -

It is a very dedicated forum member that would use his ability to travel back in time to post this info!

[LDB]

I heard a user report of a Cascadia with the new DD15 engine, about 80k miles, runs all 48, usually around 74-75k total weight, runs about 60-62mph and gets 9.6mpg. For a 7x thousand pound t/t that's excellent. I'm sure the Cascadia chassis plays a major role as well as the engine. The sensible speed also is a big factor. I'd look for the DD13 to do even better and if built in a straight truck application I'd look for 12mpg worst case. I won't need any trucks for several years so something even better might come along. Until it's proven better though I'll be looking into a Cascadia/DD13 next.

[spudhead911]

Originally Posted by D Team Brothers

I bought a new Western Star and received it in Oct. 08 - with the new MBE4000 in it. I've been in the shop repeatedly for defective engine parts, the last was a O ring near the engine head that reportedly became brittle from the excessive heat caused by the new EPA emission add on. Almost all the repairs required the techs to call DD on every move they made, even the latest repair - due to lack of experience with the new engine. Western Star dealerships were even told not to work on the engine, sent/tow the truck to a DD engine shop! Almost every repair took longer than necessary because no one had spare parts and everything neeaded to be shipped in. My last complaint about this engine is the fuel mileage; I have to keep the speed under 63MPH to get 8.5 MPG. My other trucks with pre-emission engines get 11+mpg. I'd wait for the DD15. Jack

Hey D Team...Is that your truck I saw in the classsifieds here on EO, maybe you shouldn't have bad mouthed the engine, might not be able to put a team in it..that is if it was your truck. If not, then sorry, but picture looks the same truck as your avatar, unless it is a different truck, which is possible.