Dodge Is Going To Fix Those Pesky Sprinter Problems

[dhalltoyo]

We've heard through the grapevine that another element of the collaboration between Chrysler LLC and Nissan, in addition to the latter giving the former a small car and the former giving the latter a pickup, is that Chrysler will be ditching its Daimler-sourced Sprinter commercial van in favor of a rebranded Nissan van by 2011. As we already know, Nissan is planning on producing three new light commercial vehicles for the U.S. at its plant in Canton, Mississippi, and it will be sourcing some engines for its new LCVs from Cummins. Thus, we would also expect to see the familiar sight of a Cummins diesel under the hood of Dodge's version, as well. Will we discover even more sharing between Chrysler and Nissan as time goes on? Our sources say these companies aren't finished raiding each other's parts bins by a long shot.

By Autoblog

[greg334]

Shhhhh..... the projected tare weight of the new replacement will exceed those of the duramax GM platform which leaves the platform back to limited cargo weight.

Shhhh.... the sprinter program was slated to end before 2012 anyway and with the separation of the C in D-C, there is little desire to continue it through 2009 but they can't ramp up a replacement fast enough - concept to production has been increased in the past few years.

[RLENT]

Errrr .... which "pesky Sprinter problems" would those be ?

[OntarioVanMan]

Errrr .... which "pesky Sprinter problems" would those be ?

Ditto what he said....problems?

The announcement I heard and not rumour is FORD and Nissan in bed together...Ford will build the truck and Nissan the car for each other.

[dean07]

i have a huge problem with my sprinter, no work, haha!

[OntarioVanMan]

Nothing worse then an empty Sprinter...well maybe an empty GM.

[dhalltoyo]

151,033 mile on my 2006 Sprinter and I got my first big problem,lost engine power,no more then 55 mile/hour.I change the fuel filter and was running very good for 300 mile and I lost power again.Next day got to the dealer and I find out that I have a bad EGR Valve.To change the EGR Valve and to reset the AIR BAG LIGHT(SRS) I got a bill of $1167.98,and 3 days off(EGR Valve not in stock).I HOPE YOU HAVE A BETTER DAY!!

Had to replace mine before the van even went in service. I think it was around 1000 miles. Only took about ten minutes in the shop. Mine is an 08 and under warranty, I don't know about the cost.

Guess the EGR valve problem has not been resolved.

$1167.98 is very high for an EGR replacement.

Example: A guy calls the local Dodge dealer and says, "I have a coupon for an oil change and my Doge van needs one. How much will that run me?" The service writer says, "$39.95 on all trucks and vans." The owner says, "When can you get my Sprinter in for the oil change?" After a very long pause the service writer says, "Sir, Sprinters are not included in that coupon special. An oil change on the Sprinter is $149.95."

From the foregoing posts, and many others in the archives, it seems to be a resounding indication that Sprinters are very expensive vehicles to maintain.

Sprinters get great fuel mileage and the body design is correct for what we do. I was very close to buying one about 2 months ago, but the weight limitations and the high service costs moved me in another direction.

[OntarioVanMan]

Remember the thermostats? you had to run them under hot water before you installed it because 3 out of 10 were faulty? The new EGR has a siliniod that can blow...it's no big deal.

Why oh why do people go to a dealer for an oil change? Just lazy and not too imaginative.
Oil changes are like done on a 3 to 1 basis...gas every 5,000 ours about 15,000. Oil plus filter about $75.00 and 2 less down times.
I could go back and find quotes about GM's famous fuel pumps and junky rear ends and then again there is always the Fords outrageous weak ball joints.
Every van has its twinks and the Sprinter is no different except it's new and foreign and you know how Americans are about foreign stuff...
BUT the downside of Sprinters is this Alpha (Sprinter Only) dealer crap...They should cut it loose...DC has enough diesels out there.

[Turtle]

Well, the EGR valve problem on the Sprinter has been solved with the redesign of the 2004 and later models, but that's not to say that the EGR valve is now any more bullet proof than an EGR valve in another vehicle. The Sprinter is not the only vehicle to have an EGR valve go bad.

Most EGR problems with 2004-2006 Sprinters can be solved by taking the valve off, cleaning it out with brake cleaner and a brush, then putting it back on. Or, in the case of failure, buy a new or low mileage used valve on eBay and replace it yourself. The list price on the EGR is $437 (and is what you'll pay at a dealer), but can be had for for $330 from Europarts, half that on eBay (or there is often one taken from a wreck with few miles on it for well under $100 on eBay).

Most dealers charge in the $95 an hour range for labor, some are higher (Dallas Dodge OMG), and many will charge at least the MSRP for parts. The more maintenance and repair you can do yourself the better off you will be. I have essentially no automotive maintenance or repair experience, and am not mechanically inclined, yet there are a lot of things I can do on this Sprinter. I change my own oil and filters, fuel filters, engine air and cabin air filters. I save a ton.

The center knob on the AC control panel is connected to cables that operate doors that control the airflow to the dash, floor and defrost. It became nearly impossible to turn, as the doors and cables needed to be lubed. I checked, and "book" labor for that is 3 hours, and involves removing several chunks of the dash console to get in there to the cables and doors. Did it myself and saved $300. It was a PITA, but it only took a couple of hours, and I didn't break anything. Yes, I am very proud of myself.

Had a problem a few weeks ago with the AC blower motor going bad. To have it replaced at a dealer is a little more than $300. I removed the motor, cleaned it, lubed it, replaced it, and it's working fine. A dealer would have replaced it without question.

I'm not comfortable with draining and flushing my transmission, or the rear end, so I have my dealer do that. The transmission and rear end at a dealer will cost about $450 (if they want much more than that, laugh at them and go somewhere else, as even Dallas Dodge OMG doesn't charge much more than that), and needs to be done every 60,000 miles or so. That's a lot. For a complete flush and renew, it takes 12 quarts of transmission fluid, of which most dealers charge about $20 a quart for. Europarts has it for $12.95, which cuts the $450 down to $366. I get mine off eBay, there's a guy who sells it 6 quarts at a time for what ends up being about $7 a quart. Buy 6 here, 6 there, then I'm ready for the service. Had it done last week, saved $150 by supplying my own fluid. (Incidentally, it is recommended that you do not change the trans filter until you get into the 250,000 mile range, about the 4th service, rather than at each service. Apparently changing it out too soon causes more problems than it solves.)

The only problem I'm having is a chronic failure of the serpentine belt tensioner. Those should last at least 200,000 or 300,000 miles, but I've replaced mine 3 times in the past 14 months. First one was replaced at 58,597 miles, along with an idler pulley, then that one had to be replaced 129,620, just 71,023 miles later. Then, 16440 miles later I had to replace a water pump pulley, and hoped the bad pulley was the cause of the tensioner failures. Nope. At 154,994, a mere 25,374 miles after the previous one was replaced, I had to replace it again, along with the idler pulley again.

The tensioner is dealer priced at $179 and the idler pulley is $79, and if you need a serpentine belt that's another $50 or so. It adds up, especially when you add in the 3 hours labor, to where you're in the $600 range by the time you add in tax and the ever-popular shop supplies charge. And a belt tensioner replacement isn't exactly something you want to do on the side of the road (at least I don't). I do carry a spare belt with me ($25 from Europarts), but it's getting to the point where I need to order a spare tensioner ($90 from Europarts) and a couple of pulleys ($25 from Europarts) just to keep on hand. I might or might not do the repair myself, but at least I'll have cheaper parts on hand for whoever does it.

When it fails, it's out of alignment, and needs to be replaced. What's causing it to go out of alignment, no one knows. I can replace a thrown belt, but being out of alignment, it just throws it immediately again. And because it is out of alignment, it wears one of the idler pulleys unevenly, too, so that has to be replaced along with it.

My Sprinter tech at home took a look at it and can't see a reason for the failures, and he hasn't seen a large number of failures in other Sprinters, nor has he heard of such chronic failures from other techs. He had the parts guy check the national database and it showed a very low incidence of failure nation-wide, so I dunno. It has such a low failure rate than only the larger Sprinter dealers will stock a replacement tensioner, others can get it the next morning from their distribution center. My dealer at home is a small one and doesn't stock it, and to date, they have never ordered one.

Turbo resonators are another story. My tech said he's shocked that I'm still on my original resonator. Said he's replaced those so often than he can do it blind folded now. It's interesting that the vast majority of the time he replaces the OEM resonator with the after-market one-piece aluminum Turbo Resonator Eliminator Info here.

Maintenance on a Sprinter can be very expensive, especially if you let the dealer do everything. But routine maintenance is critical, and you can save a lot by doing as much of it yourself as you can. Even the routine maintenance is expensive, like oil changes, but it's not really that bad when you factor in that you don't need to do it as often. You can save a lot of money by supplying the dealer with the fluids and parts needed for maintenance, like the transmission fluid, for example. You can do a lot of preventative maintenance, like cleaning and lubricating the blower motor and the EGR valve, before they fail. Changing out the engine coolant at 100,000-150,000 miles instead of leaving it in there until the radiator needs replaced due to corrosion.

One that I've been doing, and my tech confirmed, is to use an injector cleaner and water dispersant (like Howes Meaner Power Cleaner), in every tank. He said that's one of the simplest things you can do to prolong the life of the injectors ($400 a pop, plus ridiculous labor, just ask OVM about that). Dirty injectors increase the pressure, which not only allows water damage to occur to the injectors if a dispersant isn't used, it erodes the injector cooper seals which causes a very hot blowby and literally cuts into the head like a torch. My tech said copper seal failure is not a high percentage of incidence by any stretch, but it's real nasty, and real expensive, when it happens. But he did say that premature injector failure and replacement was higher than it should be, simply because people don't change their fuel filters often enough, and/or they don't use a good injector cleaner on a regular basis. Said that if you don't use something like Howes, then change the fuel filter like clockwork at 10,000 miles, otherwise you can go about 30,000 between changes if you use a cleaner/dispersant.

So, the key to maintaining a Sprinter is regular maintenance, good preventative maintenance, and smart maintenance. But that's true with any vehicle, I guess. One thing to do is find a good Sprinter tech that will answer questions. Find out which parts tend to go bad at x-miles and replace it before you get to that point. Of course, that's not just for Sprinters, but for any vehicle. If starters tend to go bad at 300,000 miles (and I have no idea what the real number is), replace it before you get to the point where it fails. Serpentine Belt is a good example. Unless you carry a spare with you and are prepared to change it on the side of the road in the dark while under a load, replace it at 100,000 or so, even if it might last 150,000 or longer. A $25 belt replacement will cost you far less than will a tow and a dealer replacement, not to mention the probable loss of load revenue. Replace hoses before they crack and fail, and most of those you can do yourself for far less than at a dealer.

[RLENT]

Guess the EGR valve problem has not been resolved.

Which "EGR problem" are you referring to ?

The 2002 - 2003 took one EGR valve, the 2004 - 2006 took another, the NV3 (2007 on) took yet another ..... and that's just the current replacements (not counting rev's between model years)

$1167.98 is very high for an EGR replacement.

Indeed it is ....... FWIW, the price at EuroParts San Diego for the EGR valve for the vehicle mentioned is $329 ..... makes ya wonder what the breakout was on the labor and resetting the SRS was .....

Wonder how hard it is to replace ?

...... I dunno .... but hard to imagine it's $840 "hard" ......

Example: A guy calls the local Dodge dealer and says, "I have a coupon for an oil change and my Doge van needs one. How much will that run me?" ........ After a very long pause the service writer says, "Sir, Sprinters are not included in that coupon special. An oil change on the Sprinter is $149.95."

Yeah - I'd get about the same reply on the oil change for my '05 Ram 3500 with the Cummins in it. In fact, the dealer I bought it from sends me coupons all the time and it includes oil changes - with the specific disclaimers that the Ram with the CTD is excluded.

Like OVM says - why go to the dealer for an oil change ?

I do mine on the road myself - buy the oil from AutoZone and with the rewards card, the cost is reduced to about $51.38 (9.5 quarts of Mobil 1 0w40 synthetic) and $7 bucks for a filter from Europarts. I carry a drop cloth to lay on and jug to catch the old oil (which I get rid of at AutoZone) - takes me maybe 30 minutes from start to finish.

From the foregoing posts, and many others in the archives, it seems to be a resounding indication that Sprinters are very expensive vehicles to maintain.

Well ..... one of the "resounding" problems with your assumption is that you are basing your conclusions on a limited data set - primarily composed of those that you have read about that have had problems - and it doesn't take into account those that have not had problems. Without looking at the entire picture one can come to erroneous conclusions.

FWIW, my '06 has 102K on it and all I have done is change the oil maybe seven or eight times and change the fuel filter three or four times, and transmission filter and fluid once. And replaced the cabin air filter once .... and added a less than a quart of coolant.

I did have two items done under warranty at no cost to me - a sensor (air intake temp I think) and had the steering rack and pinion replaced (likely actually my fault - for banging a tire into a curb in cul-de-sac at speed while I had the wheel at full lock)

My total cost for the above maintenance was under $900 (including the cost of the dipstick tool to accurately measure the tranny fluid) Add in another $75 (on the outside, maybe) for tire rotations and having the tires filled with nitrogen.

That's a per mile maintenance cost of just less than one cent (0.009803921568627451 to be exact, using a total cost of $1000 thus far - which is probably a little high)

I still haven't changed the air filter or serpentine belt (knock on wood), the original tires are at 6/32nds on the front and 4/32nds on the rear, and I'm still on the original brakes.

Do I think that my per mile cost will continue to be that low ?

No ... I don't .... the tires ($800) are gonna have to replaced in the next 10K or so miles , I have a tranny service ($150) due in another 18K, and sooner or later I'm gonna have to breakdown and replace the air filter ($25). And I'll probably replace the serpentine belt before too much longer and check the belt tensioner's and all pulleys' condition. I have the air filter, serpentine belts (2) and belt tensioner in stock already - along with a number of common failure items (a sensor, a relay and a turbo resonator eliminator)

At some point the brakes will need done - I'll likely do them myself - figure $200 for new rotors and $100 to $125 for pads all the way around. The brake fluid is about due to be changed now - I'll probably just do it when I do the brakes - maybe $25 for the fluid. Oh .... and the gear oil in the diff will need changed out when I do the tranny service .... dunno what the cost on that will be but it can't be that bad.

This weekend I fabbed and welded up a mounting bracket for an auxiliary transmission cooler and (spin-on) filter. Cost: less than $100 for the cooler, filter, and steel. Sometimes it pays to be a little proactive. (shoulda done it when it was brand new)

I'm sure at some point there will be a failure of a more expensive part or system that I will need to take into a shop to have fixed. But in the meantime I'm doing what I can do to keep my maintenance costs as low as I can - to offset having to pay for something that is expensive that I can't do myself.

Sprinters get great fuel mileage and the body design is correct for what we do. I was very close to buying one about 2 months ago, but the weight limitations and the high service costs moved me in another direction.

If one depends on the dealer to do it all, it's a good bet that your service costs will be high - no matter what vehicle you go with. Dealers are, afterall, in business to make money - and have traditionally been at the higher end of the spectrum as far as vehicle repairs and maintenance go.

[RLENT]

(Incidentally, it is recommended that you do not change the trans filter until you get into the 250,000 mile range, about the 4th service, rather than at each service. Apparently changing it out too soon causes more problems than it solves.)

I'd be real curious to know if there is a TSB from D-C (now Chrysler I guess) on this - or who the actual original source of this data is .....

I'd also want to know whether there is any bypass mechanism in the system - so that if the filter does clog prematurely, the transmission will still receive adequate fluid flow.

I've seen the amount of debris (mud) in the pan myself at first fluid change ..... it is not insignificant. The second fluid change might change my inclinations as regards this recommendation.

[Turtle]

I called him Saturday and asked. It depends on if you do a drain and fill, or a flush. For a drain and fill, the transmission needs to be opened and the filter and a new seal put in place. When you do that the circuit board and speed sensor should also be checked for contamination and debris.

Many dealers cannot, and thus won't, do a flush, simply because they don't have the proper flushing machine. For a flush, only a flushing machine that uses its own fluid pump (connects to the transmission's pump intake), and does not use the vehicle's transmission pump (connects to the cooler lines), should be used. Most flushing machines employ the vehicle's transmission pump to circulate the old fluid out and the new fluid in, which, of course, means that everything passes through the filter on its way out. A proper flush with the correct type of flushing machine will clean out all the debris and contamination, including the filter, plus the circuit board and speed sensors. The wrong machine won't clean the filter, circuit board or the input speed sensors.

A flush is what they recommend in Sprinter Tech School, provided the proper machine is used. If the proper flushing machine is not used, and since a very high percentage of the fluid can be drained from the Sprinter transmission, they recommend servicing the transmission as per the manual (exactly the way you do yours), with the exception that they also recommend running (wasting) 2-3 quarts of new fluid back into the transmission via an open return line from the cooler after before replacing the drain plug and then removing the pan. It's not really a flush, kind of a poor man's flush, I guess, but it works well enough, and is better than merely draining. To do the manual flush, the vehicle must be running and the transmission in DRIVE (to engage the transmission fluid pump), so you'd need wheels chocked and hand brake on, or you need to trust your wife.

[OntarioVanMan]

Turtle said "One that I've been doing, and my tech confirmed, is to use an injector cleaner and water dispersant (like Howes Meaner Power Cleaner), in every tank. He said that's one of the simplest things you can do to prolong the life of the injectors ($400 a pop, plus ridiculous labor, just ask OVM about that). Dirty injectors increase the pressure, which not only allows water damage to occur to the injectors if a dispersant isn't used, it erodes the injector cooper seals which causes a very hot blowby and literally cuts into the head like a torch."

It ended up not being an injector failure but an oil separator...Injectors were quoted at $525 EACH PLUS seals and labour...Thank goodness!!
With 299,500 miles the oil separator is the only failure I've had (knock on wood)
Turtle..Steady Eddie was having that problem as well...It seems his tech was putting on the WRONG belt!! And with every failure the tech would just put on the same one he took off without checking..He's in the process of settling with DC on this one!

Rlent...Be careful with that trans cooler...tech told me has had more crankshaft failures with people that have had coolers because they are not TROQUING them correctly..The belt is too tight and ever so slightly pulls the crank to one side to cause wear!
My OEM serpintine belt was changed at 200,000 and have had no problems. EGR has never been cleaned and again no problems...same water pump and alternator. Tech says he's changed very few alternators they seem to last...

TIP...My tech showed me how to unplug the EGR should it fail...this will give you full speed back but service light will stay on..but it's driveable and will do no damage that won't fix itself when changed out.

[RLENT]

Rlent...Be careful with that trans cooler...tech told me has had more crankshaft failures with people that have had coolers because they are not TROQUING them correctly..The belt is too tight and ever so slightly pulls the crank to one side to cause wear!

OVM,

Thanks for the concern - I doubt that I will have any problems - the tranny cooler I chose is entirely passive and is not hooked into anything - other than the return transmission cooler line coming from the cooler built into the right (passenger) side of the Sprinter's radiator.

My set up is largely identical to the one that the Sprinter Store sells - it is a 24" two-tube PermaCool frame rail transmission cooler, mounted on the frame (front cross member) just below the radiator. With the exception that I'm also using a PermaCool external transmission filter (spin-on type, uses your basic Ford/Chrysler spin-on element PH8A (long) or PH43 (short) ...... although I'll probably use a Fram HP1 as they are rated for higher pressure.

My OEM serpintine belt was changed at 200,000 and have had no problems.

Impressive .... I keep looking at mine every so often, looking for a crack or some sign of wear ..... haven't found one yet.

EGR has never been cleaned and again no problems ...same water pump and alternator.

Curious ..... have you ever idled the vehicle for extended periods ?

Tech says he's changed very few alternators they seem to last...

Is yours the 150 amp model ?

TIP...My tech showed me how to unplug the EGR should it fail...this will give you full speed back but service light will stay on..but it's driveable and will do no damage that won't fix itself when changed out.

Good data - thanks !

[RLENT]

I called him Saturday and asked. It depends on if you do a drain and fill, or a flush. For a drain and fill, the transmission needs to be opened and the filter and a new seal put in place. When you do that the circuit board and speed sensor should also be checked for contamination and debris.

Yup.

Many dealers cannot, and thus won't, do a flush, simply because they don't have the proper flushing machine.

Right - at $5K to $8K it's not exactly an inexpensive piece of equipment. Of course my dealer charges $775 for the procedure (and that doesn't even include the correct fluid which is an additional charge) ..... at that rate it wouldn't be hard to pay for the machine fairly quickly (.... which may explain why they get very little of my business.)

For a flush, only a flushing machine that uses its own fluid pump (connects to the transmission's pump intake), and does not use the vehicle's transmission pump (connects to the cooler lines), should be used.

Ok.

Most flushing machines employ the vehicle's transmission pump to circulate the old fluid out and the new fluid in, which, of course, means that everything passes through the filter on its way out.

Right.

A proper flush with the correct type of flushing machine will clean out all the debris and contamination, including the filter, plus the circuit board and speed sensors. The wrong machine won't clean the filter, circuit board or the input speed sensors.

I would think that in order to clean the filter, if it is part of the chain or in the path of the flush, that the flush would have to be a reverse flush - in order to push the debris back out of the filter.

I'd also wonder about the efficacy of such a procedure to clean the circuit board or input speed sensors - since part of the problem with these are that they are an electro-magnetic device - and the magnetism attracts and holds ferrous metal debris .... or at least that is my understanding of the issue.

A flush is what they recommend in Sprinter Tech School, provided the proper machine is used.

That's interesting - and part of the reason I asked about this because there is a memo or TSB floating around from D-C that states specifically that NO kind of flushing procedures are required - or recommended - for any of the their vehicles - other than radiator/coolant flushing.

If the proper flushing machine is not used, and since a very high percentage of the fluid can be drained from the Sprinter transmission, they recommend servicing the transmission as per the manual (exactly the way you do yours), with the exception that they also recommend running (wasting) 2-3 quarts of new fluid back into the transmission via an open return line from the cooler after before replacing the drain plug and then removing the pan.

The statement above leaves me confused ..... ? (after ? before ?)

To do the manual flush, the vehicle must be running and the transmission in DRIVE (to engage the transmission fluid pump),

Of course.

or you need to trust your wife.

Not bloody likely .....