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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    In the latest issue of " Popular Mechanics " Jay Leno test drove the new International pickup . This vehicle has a gvw of 25,999 but has air brakes . I have never heard of a truck with a gvw under 26,000 having air brakes . Wouldn't a CDL be required to operate this truck ?

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  3. 1,176701,21486,8
  4. #2
    Senior Member terryandrene's Avatar
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    Just checked the MO CDL Manual and it sez personal use vehicles or using a comm'l vehicle for personal use such as moving ones own personal property are exempt from CDL requirement. No mention of air brakes in the exemptions.
    Terry and Rene'


    Cargo Van Owner/Operators.
    FedEx Custom Critical 1989 - 2008

  5. 2,176702,21486,8
  6. #3
    Member
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    Bakersfield, CA, USA.
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    I believe Airbrakes are becoming more and more popular with the commercial type trucks under 26,000GVW. However they are coming from your medium duty manufacturers (International/Freightliner)... New Penske straight trucks are (to my knowledge) being ordered with airbrakes, which are under 26,000GVW so that people holding Class C's can utilize their trucks (moving)...

    At least in California, as per commercial enforcment, You do not have to have a special endorsment to use a truck like this with airbrakes...


    -Joe Bohannon
    Bakersfield, CA
    Wannabe

    Disclaimer: I am not a Commercial Enforcment officer. Information I provide is based on laws I've read regarding these vehicles, in addition speaking and asking specific questions with several California Commercial Enforcment officers.

  7. 3,176703,21486,8
  8. #4
    Senior Member
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    Gibbon, mn.
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    This is from the boys in the coop in WI. A truck with a GVW of LESS than 26001 that is equpited with air brakes CAN be operated with a standard drivers license.

    Not sure why, even the officer was confused. I mean, air brakes are air brakes. I guess it is because the newer systems need less attention and adjust themselfs. I still cringe everytime I see someone diving a rental.

    Speaking of that international pickup. The heck with the Hummers, I want one of those! (cost about as much too).

  9. 4,176704,21486,8
  10. #5
    Junior Member
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    Feb 2005
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    orlando, florida, usa.
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    This has been a confusing issue for everybody. I sell Freightliners in Orlando Florida and called the Florida Department of Highway Safety & Motor Vehicles. I was told that you ARE required to have a CDL to drive any truck that had air brakes.I explained to the lady that you could not take a CDL test in the truck in question because the GVW was only 25,500. She said that it would have to be taken in another truck. This made no sense to me, so I wrote to a Compliance Officer (Kathy Daws) and I now have it in writing that you do NOT need a CDL to drive a truck under 26,000GVW, even if it has air brakes. I informed her that there were several enforcement officers who were not aware of this, including whoever answers the phone there. Hope this helps.

  11. 5,176705,21486,8
  12. #6
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    I would think the logical answer would be this vehicle would require a Class C CDL with air brake endorsement . I haven't seen a GCVW given but with an empty weight of 14,500 non-CDL drivers are restricted to towing less than 6 tons .

  13. 6,176706,21486,8
  14. #7
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    Charlotte, NC, usa.
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    It is crazy, not to have at least the Air Brake Endorsement. As far as I am concerned it is a safety issue (I know my opinion means jack poop). But should safety not take rule here? What if? No let me rephrase when the air lines do break whos gona be at fault?

    If we failed to do a Pre-trip and our airlines went WOW talk about trouble. That is why it was explained to me in the DMV NC hand book how to handle an emergency. Next they will begin putting these on Motor Homes, without any explanation to the guy who loans it to his Grandfathers retired next door nieghbor. Thinks he is now a truck driver.

    Ever watch these things backing up, get out of the way.

  15. 7,176707,21486,8
  16. #8
    Senior Member terryandrene's Avatar
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    Just a point of clarification, the topic truck driven by Jay Leno is a noncommercial vehicle driven for private use.

    Regardless of GVWR or brake type, a non-commercial vehicle operator is not required to have a CDL. So sez the MO CDL Guidebook. I suspect the guide is based on the same federal regs to which all states must adhere.
    Terry and Rene'


    Cargo Van Owner/Operators.
    FedEx Custom Critical 1989 - 2008

  17. 8,176708,21486,8
  18. #9
    Senior Member
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    Charlotte, NC, usa.
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    Sure it is. I got to see one when I was working at Joe Gibbs, everyone used this place a test pilot. Guys loved it but for what? It had Air Brakes was under the GVW for a commercial plate, but still had A/B.

    It stinks that you can go out buy something like this with professional equipment that should be driven by only an expierenced lic. driver. Next you will 24 year old mothers at Day Care because Johny needs all that metal around him while she runs over your family member.

    The Vehicle in question is Overkill but seems that Americans will buy anything that is bigger badder than the last.

  19. 9,176709,21486,8
  20. #10
    Senior Member
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    7,732

    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    To elevate your blood pressure further, consider the 80 year-old retiree that decides he wants a 45 foot motor coach with large toy hauler towed behind. No problem. No training or special license needed. His coach can be longer than my 40 foot straight truck. His front axle can far exceed the front axle weight standards that apply to CMV's.

    I'm not concerned about RV driver safety. I'm not aware of any statistics that show they are worse drivers than others. I'm envious. I'd love to be able to add five more feet to my sleeper and not worry much about front axle weight.
    Expediter 2003-2013. Straight truck. The husband half of a husband/wife team.

  21. 10,176710,21486,8
  22. #11
    Senior Member
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    Thank you I could go on and on. Perfect example who of us has not been on I-70 near Springfield OH. Trucks, Buses sign says STAY IN LEFT LANE thru Construction. Right?

    Guess whos got to pass me on the right with no room, sits besides me for about 4 miles until I finially decide I have had enough of Bozo sitting in my blind spot. Put on the R signal to see if he is paying any attention to get him either behind me or pass which there is not enough safe room to get two large vehicles buy. Then when he does get buy me just like the song flips me the bird. Sorry I have to use the highway to make a living and keep the Country Moving.

  23. 11,176711,21486,8
  24. #12
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    Middletown, OH.
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    There seems to be alot of confusion out there on the under 26,000 GVW with air brakes. I used to drive a 1996 FL60 and it had air brakes. Some other guys who do the same trade shows as I do ran into some problems. They finally turned in there rental trucks to non air brake trucks after getting stuck in some state that i can't remember and had to get a CDL driver to move the truck out of the Coop. At that time I did not have a CDL but never ran into a problem. I think it depends on the state your driving in. I do believe that anyone driving a truck with air brakes should have to take the test.

    Dale

  25. 12,176712,21486,8
  26. #13
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    Just today, I bought my first truck, a 26,000GVW Int'l 4700 with air brakes. One salesman told my I would not need a CDL, the other told me I would. I've been driving box trucks for a few years without a CDL and no a/b, but need one or not I plan to get a class C cdl before I get on the road in this truck. My brother is an A-driver and although he doesn't yet know it he is soon going to be giving driving lessons.

    Instead of starting a new thread, can someone tell me what kind of mileage I can expect? 7 sp (granny & o/d), 410 gears, 22.5 tires, 210 hp. This is a '98 w/278,000 actual miles, a sleeper and a liftgate. I've always thought I would at least get 10-12 mpg loaded (granted, at no more than 60 mph), but the salesman said only 6-9.

  27. 13,176713,21486,8
  28. #14
    Moderator JohnMueller's Avatar
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    To all respondents of this post. I have encountered this problem in the past on a few instances. The last cost a fleet owner leased onto our company a good driver. That driver just could not live with the uncertainty of how each law enforcement official he encountered would interpret the regs. He left to drive a non-cdl vehicle without airbrakes. The problem exists because many of the law enforcement officials are not propperly trained or do not understand the regulations. This applies to both roadside inspectors and persons employed within the state or federal governmental offices. The posts on this thread clearly show discrepancies in the interpretation of the regs. Listed below are definitions that are posted the the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website, which contains all of the regulations and their definitions. The address for this website is http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/383.5.htm

    The following definitions were pulled from the webiste for your convenience:

    Commercial driver's license (CDL) means a license issued by a State or other jurisdiction, in accordance with the standards contained in 49 CFR part 383, to an individual which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle.

    Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle --
    (a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
    (b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or
    (c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
    d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

    Endorsement means an authorization to an individual's CDL required to permit the individual to operate certain types of commercial motor vehicles.

    Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.

    Non-CMV means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles not defined by the term "commercial motor vehicle (CMV)" in this section.

    By the definitions listed above, especially the last definition, a vehicle having a GVW of 26,000 lbs. with air-brakes, that has only 2 axles, is a NON-CDL vehicle provided it is not used to transport placardable amounts of hazardous materials. I see them as being legally operated by a person without a CDL. That is my opinion. We all know that my opinion may not be the same as the law enforcement official who issues you a citation.

    That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

    HotFr8Recruiter
    John Mueller, CDS


    John Mueller, CDS
    Safety Director-Partner
    Premium Transportation Logistics, LLC
    johnm@ptlllc.com
    800-661-3166 Ext 111

  29. 14,176714,21486,8
  30. #15
    Junior Member
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    orlando, florida, usa.
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    RE: Non-CDL with air brakes ?

    In the letter that I received from Compliance Officer Daws in Tallahassee, she says that "If you operate a noncommercial motor vehicle, with air brakes, you are not required to upgrade to a commercial license, as long as the gross vehicle weight rating is 26,001 pounds or less".She then goes on to say, "The license class is determined by the weight of the vehicle, not how the vehicle is used (example personal or business use)".

    Unfortunately,it seems that a majority of the law enforcement officers don't know this.

    It's a crazy law, but it is the law.

  31. 15,176715,21486,8
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