60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

[jeffman164]

Considering the wide range of variables - which set up is usually more beneficial tax wise for the fleet owner - a 60 /40 or a 40 / 60 split ?? All of the vans will be approximately 5 years old with generators when purchased . I realize that there will be all sorts of drivers ( some responsible and some not so much ) . I am just trying to get a general overall opinion . THANK YOU !!

[greg334]

what does your accountant say?

[Ragman]

what does your accountant say?

Oh great! First I should have a lawyer, now I need an accountant!

[greg334]

Well ... yea... what, you trust your dog with all that money you make?

Seriously the problem that many seem to have while making one decision while buying into the idea that they need to be fleet owners is how to structure their business for their situation. An accountant will tell him how to do it in such a way to leverage being an owner while lessening your tax burden. He is talking about getting vans (plural), not one and this to me means he should have professional help to determine what he needs to do in his situation. The fleet means a sizable investment, the ROI may not be as great as say a single truck in that price range and because he is asking the basic of basic question, it seems he needs more than forum help.

BUT to answer his question, 60 driver/40 owner seems to work for trucks, with 100% fsc, labor going to the driver.

[jeffman164]

My existing accountant was fine when I was in the Landscape field but now I am in the process of finding an accountant that specializes in the trucking industry . A zillion things are cruising through my mind and I was just trying to get a general opinion of what works best for most people .

[greg334]

Hey, just a hint you do not need a specialist.

I use one who is a common every day accountant who specializes in making cookies - she bakes on the side. She's good in identifying issues which will screw me in the long run, helps with the pitfalls of the business and tells me what to and not to do.

I don't get the trucking thing, her new client is an owner with a bunch of trucks I manage and she seems not to think the trucking thing is any different from any other business. She doesn't handle day to day things, she consults with someone else about fuel taxes and permit stuff but everything else she has a grip on.

[roadeyes]

This answer isn't directly tax related to your question as you have put it as far as the better way to structure your company goes but IMO you should give 60% to the driver and let them pay the gas. Why? Because they will be much easier on the vehicle if they are paying for the fuel.
Less maintainence and hopefully longer vehicle life/usage will result.

[jeffman164]

Would love to do a 60 / 40 but realize that a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives . Going to sign on with a smaller company that does not have pre pay benefits .

[pjjjjj]

Hey, just a hint you do not need a specialist.

I use one who is a common every day accountant who specializes in making cookies - she bakes on the side. She's good in identifying issues which will screw me in the long run, helps with the pitfalls of the business and tells me what to and not to do.

I don't get the trucking thing, her new client is an owner with a bunch of trucks I manage and she seems not to think the trucking thing is any different from any other business. She doesn't handle day to day things, she consults with someone else about fuel taxes and permit stuff but everything else she has a grip on.

That just sounds nuts to me.
If you're going to pay for accounting services, you might as well pay for someone who knows the business without having to learn it at your expense, or farm parts of it out to other experts who you could have farmed it out to yourself. Perhaps you won't like her choice of who she farms it out to. If she consults with other 'experts', you're going to be charged for that too.
Really, what's the problem with asking other fleet owners on here? Get a pile of opinions, do your own research, learn your own business, hire a bookkeeper if you have to, and save the expensive guy for consulting and tax returns.

[pjjjjj]

Would love to do a 60 / 40 but realize that a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives . Going to sign on with a smaller company that does not have pre pay benefits .

Will you be hiring your drivers as employees or contractors?

[dabluzman1]

Would love to do a 60 / 40 but realize that a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives . Going to sign on with a smaller company that does not have pre pay benefits .

Better get someone to help with a biz plan.
You are heading down the toilet before you start.
Conceding that " a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives".
If that is quality you are looking to utilize, well, the soup kitchens will help feed you this time next year.

[greg334]

Why is it crazy?

If you have other businesses and incomes, or you have large liabilities, everything should be examined to determine what is the best fit for you. A lot of these truckin' accoutants are too far away for you to sit with them, a few have hundreds of clients which actually defeat the purpose of having on as an advisor. A number of them are nothing more than glorified tax preparers with a CPA cert.

It isn't just about the money you produce but how you can lessen your tax revenue while leveraging the profits for the future at the same time fitting into your goals and needs.

It won't matter if they are 'trucking' specialist, or manufacturing specialist, the key is to start with someone who actually knows what they are doing with any business because it is a business, not a profession you are building.

AND yes have a plan, as dabluzman, it is important. It is even more important to have a way out.

[jeffman164]

Drivers will be independent contractors . In all reality , will do a 40 / 60 split because of lack of funds for new drivers . Thank you for your opinions about the accountants !!

[Fkatz]

Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My existing accountant was fine when I was in the Landscape field but now I am in the process of finding an accountant that specializes in the trucking industry . A zillion things are cruising through my mind and I was just trying to get a general opinion of what works best for most people .


jeffman164

09-03-2010, 02:32 AM #6 (permalink)
greg334
"
Hey, just a hint you do not need a specialist.

I use one who is a common every day accountant who specializes in making cookies - she bakes on the side. She's good in identifying issues which will screw me in the long run, helps with the pitfalls of the business and tells me what to and not to do.

I don't get the trucking thing, her new client is an owner with a bunch of trucks I manage and she seems not to think the trucking thing is any different from any other business. She doesn't handle day to day things, she consults with someone else about fuel taxes and permit stuff but everything else she has a grip on.
__________________
Greg

09-03-2010, 03:34 AM #7 (permalink)
roadeyes
Member

Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This answer isn't directly tax related to your question as you have put it as far as the better way to structure your company goes but IMO you should give 60% to the driver and let them pay the gas. Why? Because they will be much easier on the vehicle if they are paying for the fuel.
Less maintainence and hopefully longer vehicle life/usage will result.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by roadeyes; 09-03-2010 at 03:37 AM.

09-04-2010, 03:35 AM #8 (permalink)
jeffman164
Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

Would love to do a 60 / 40 but realize that a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives . Going to sign on with a smaller company that does not have pre pay benefits .


09-04-2010, 04:54 AM #9 (permalink)
pjjjjj
Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg334
Hey, just a hint you do not need a specialist.

I use one who is a common every day accountant who specializes in making cookies - she bakes on the side. She's good in identifying issues which will screw me in the long run, helps with the pitfalls of the business and tells me what to and not to do.

I don't get the trucking thing, her new client is an owner with a bunch of trucks I manage and she seems not to think the trucking thing is any different from any other business. She doesn't handle day to day things, she consults with someone else about fuel taxes and permit stuff but everything else she has a grip on.

That just sounds nuts to me.
If you're going to pay for accounting services, you might as well pay for someone who knows the business without having to learn it at your expense, or farm parts of it out to other experts who you could have farmed it out to yourself. Perhaps you won't like her choice of who she farms it out to. If she consults with other 'experts', you're going to be charged for that too.
Really, what's the problem with asking other fleet owners on here? Get a pile of opinions, do your own research, learn your own business, hire a bookkeeper if you have to, and save the expensive guy for consulting and tax returns.
__________________
pjjjjj

09-04-2010, 04:56 AM #10 (permalink)
pjjjjj
Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffman164
Would love to do a 60 / 40 but realize that a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives . Going to sign on with a smaller company that does not have pre pay benefits .

Will you be hiring your drivers as employees or contractors?
__________________
pjjjjj
09-04-2010, 05:29 AM #11 (permalink)
dabluzman1
Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffman164
Would love to do a 60 / 40 but realize that a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives . Going to sign on with a smaller company that does not have pre pay benefits .

Better get someone to help with a biz plan.
You are heading down the toilet before you start.
Conceding that " a lot of drivers don't have the capital to pay for the fuel until 1st check arrives".
If that is quality you are looking to utilize, well, the soup kitchens will help feed you this time next year.
__________________
Be Informed.

Linda N Dave
DR4426
FedEx CC
OOIDA 887745
dabluzman1
09-04-2010, 01:35 PM #12 (permalink)
greg334
"10K Club" Member
Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it crazy?

If you have other businesses and incomes, or you have large liabilities, everything should be examined to determine what is the best fit for you. A lot of these truckin' accoutants are too far away for you to sit with them, a few have hundreds of clients which actually defeat the purpose of having on as an advisor. A number of them are nothing more than glorified tax preparers with a CPA cert.

It isn't just about the money you produce but how you can lessen your tax revenue while leveraging the profits for the future at the same time fitting into your goals and needs.

It won't matter if they are 'trucking' specialist, or manufacturing specialist, the key is to start with someone who actually knows what they are doing with any business because it is a business, not a profession you are building.

AND yes have a plan, as dabluzman, it is important. It is even more important to have a way out.
__________________
Greg
1999 Freightliner FL70

09-05-2010, 04:37 AM #13 (permalink)
jeffman164

Posts: 139
Re: 60 / 40 or 40 / 60 ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drivers will be independent contractors . In all reality , will do a 40 / 60 split because of lack of funds for new drivers . Thank you for your opinions about the accountants !!

jeffman164

Hi all,

1. Make sure you have a contract between your drivers and yourself specifying exactly what each is responsible for
2. Since you are the owner you would want a 60%/40% split, this can really be accomplished by the drivers taking advances to survive on the road, and it is taken out of there settlements weekly.
3. I personally feel that you are opening a can of worms when you want to be a fleet owner so quickly, I would start to see about the $$$ that you will be making the first 6 months to a year with the smaller companies, plus you even though they are independent contractors, you might be responsible for Workmen Compensation Insurance on them
4. Most accountants, or bookkeepers, and CPA's do not know the trucking industry due to the actual deductions that a trucker can take versus a regular business owner. try to find a Tax preparation firm that does accounting and bookkeeping. but a lot of trucking tax preparers do not do fuel tax and permits, that is a separate speciality the is a lot more involved in that only. they do not do anything else except the fuel tax reporting, and will get you permits if you have your own authority, or are getting you own.
5. I cannot tell you who to use, but make sure everything is completed in the tax preparers office, Most of the time when it comes to fuel tax, most companies do there own when yu leased on to them, but if it is small co that you lease onto. and you have cargo vans NOFUEL TAX IS reported anywhere, if you ahve your own authority then fuel tax has to be reported, keeping state line to state line records with fuel receipts.
6. if you have any additional questions please do not hesitate to ask
Franklin Katz, ATP ,PA, PB
Frank’s Tax and Business Service
120 York Rd
Kings Mountain, NC 28086-3151
(704) 739-4039
Fax: (704) 739-3934


Providing Professional Accounting Services and Income Tax Preparation

Circular 230 Disclaimer – Any tax advice in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer for the purpose of (1) avoiding tax related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matters addressed herein.


5.