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Thread: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

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    Senior Member AMonger's Avatar
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    Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Pentagon plans to prosecute any military member who shares his faith in any way, including chaplains. One advisor calls it "treason."

    For those that keep throwing that term around loosely, like the ******* who does it in this case, treason is very narrowly defined in and by the constitution. Treason is limited to 1) making war against the States; and 2) giving aid and comfort to their enemies. That's it. Nothing else is treason. The founding fathers set it up this way to ensure that dissent couldn't be called treason.

    As I've proven here before, it's a myth that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to military members. The air force told us quite the opposite in basic training. Anyone so charged who knows his rights should be able to beat this, and anybody who thinks this application of the Constitution is correct is seriously cognitively deficient.

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    www.breitbart.com
    Pentagon Confirms May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith
    by Ken Klukowski

    The statement, released to Fox News, follows a Breitbart News report on Obama administration Pentagon appointees meeting with anti-Christian extremist Mikey Weinstein to develop court-martial procedures to punish Christians in the military who express or share their faith.

    (From our earlier report: Weinstein is the head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and says Christians--including chaplains--sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the military are guilty of “treason,” and of committing an act of “spiritual rape” as serious a crime as “sexual assault.” He also asserted that Christians sharing their faith in the military are “enemies of the Constitution.”)

    Being convicted in a court martial means that a soldier has committed a crime under federal military law. Punishment for a court martial can include imprisonment and being dishonorably discharged from the military.

    So President Barack Obama’s civilian appointees who lead the Pentagon are confirming that the military will make it a crime--possibly resulting in imprisonment--for those in uniform to share their faith. This would include chaplains—military officers who are ordained clergymen of their faith (mostly Christian pastors or priests, or Jewish rabbis)--whose duty since the founding of the U.S. military under George Washington is to teach their faith and minister to the spiritual needs of troops who come to them for counsel, instruction, or comfort.

    This regulation would severely limit expressions of faith in the military, even on a one-to-one basis between close friends. It could also effectively abolish the position of chaplain in the military, as it would not allow chaplains (or any service members, for that matter), to say anything about their faith that others say led them to think they were being encouraged to make faith part of their life. It’s difficult to imagine how a member of the clergy could give spiritual counseling without saying anything that might be perceived in that fashion.

    In response to the Pentagon’s plans, retired Lt. Gen. Jerry Boykin, who is now executive vice president of the Family Research Council (FRC), said on Fox & Friends this morning:

    “It’s a matter of what do they mean by ‘proselytizing.’...I think they’ve got their defintions a little confused. If you’re talking about coercion that’s one thing, but if you’re talking about the free exercise of our faith as individual soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines, especially for the chaplains, they I think the worst thing we can do is stop the ability for a soldier to be able to exercise his faith.”

    FRC has launched a petition here which has already collected over 30,000 signatures, calling on Secretary Hagel is stop working with Weinstein and his anti-Christian organization to develop military policy regarding religious faith.

    Breitbart News legal columnist Ken Klukowski is senior fellow for religious liberty with the Family Research Council and on faculty at Liberty University School of Law.
    ========

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    Senior Member AMonger's Avatar
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    More on the story: http://thegospelcoalition.org/mobile...eat-commission

    The writer of the above blog states that, while it's unclear how serious the Pentagon is going to take this, gone is the day when this could be laughed off as the ravings of a hardcore, anti-religion whack job, frothing at the mouth. 25 years ago, the idea of socialized medicine was laughed at, and yet here we are. No one knows of what the madman at the helm is capable; his caprice seems to know no bounds.
    You know the problem with dishonest cops? It gives the other 5% a bad name.

    "If your government tells you a lie, it's for your own good!"--Archie Bunker

    There is no human tragedy so awful that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman.

    "There's only one basic human right: the right to do as you d*** well please. And with it comes the only basic duty: the duty to take the consequences." -- P.J. O'Rourke

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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Are they going to court martial muslims who share their beliefs?
    A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man's heart directs him toward the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 NASB
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Militarism and religious zealotry and/or fanaticism (of any particular variety or flavor) are never a good mix ... all one has to do is consult history to see that it is so ...

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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    As always, there is another side to the story ... other than the Christo-Fascist one that is:

    Michael L. (Mikey) Weinstein, Esq.: Fundamentalist Christian Monsters: Papa's Got A Brand New Bag

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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by RLENT View Post
    Militarism and religious zealotry and/or fanaticism (of any particular variety or flavor) are never a good mix ... all one has to do is consult history to see that it is so ...
    Acts 10:19-22. Acts 27:31,32. I can do this all day...... there goes Gods word getting in the way again.

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    Last edited by TropixBum; 05-02-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by AMonger View Post
    More on the story: TGC Mobile | Article | Will the Pentagon Prohibit the Great Commission?

    The writer of the above blog states that, while it's unclear how serious the Pentagon is going to take this, gone is the day when this could be laughed off as the ravings of a hardcore, anti-religion whack job, frothing at the mouth. 25 years ago, the idea of socialized medicine was laughed at, and yet here we are. No one knows of what the madman at the helm is capable; his caprice seems to know no bounds.
    It's got nothing to do with the madman at the helm, but rather the morally questionable techniques used by Christian evangelicals exercising their faith in fine mafioso fashion. No one, other than the Chicken Little Drama Queens, are talking about muzzling chaplains or anyone else who wants to exercise or talk about their faith. In years gone by, and in the recent present, some of these groups have used their religion as a shield to stand behind while they engage in coercion, and even extortion, all in the name of the Lord, of course. For some reason it's incorrect, in the minds of some wacko extremists, that Evangelical Christianity could be classified as a religious extremist group in the same way as radical Islam can be classified. Yet they are, in fact, the same type of radical extremism, each overflowing with hatred and violence, each after the same goals.
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    It's got nothing to do with the madman at the helm, but rather the morally questionable techniques used by Christian evangelicals exercising their faith in fine mafioso fashion. No one, other than the Chicken Little Drama Queens, are talking about muzzling chaplains or anyone else who wants to exercise or talk about their faith. In years gone by, and in the recent present, some of these groups have used their religion as a shield to stand behind while they engage in coercion, and even extortion, all in the name of the Lord, of course. For some reason it's incorrect, in the minds of some wacko extremists, that Evangelical Christianity could be classified as a religious extremist group in the same way as radical Islam can be classified. Yet they are, in fact, the same type of radical extremism, each overflowing with hatred and violence, each after the same goals.
    Christian Evangelicals or any other so called "religious" group are likely to have varying degrees of faith and even more varying methods of demonstrating that faith when it comes to devotion. The Westboro Baptist Church people, who I consider religious extremists, claim to represent Christian Fundamentals but I have to believe your garden variety Presbyterian wouldn't be in the same camp.
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Im sure this putz never had an oppertunity to shake hands with death. Ive been there, done that,and have the T shirt. I gurantee you will seek God or pray God is watching over you when you are in a potentialy deadly situation.

    Bob Wolf.
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by BobWolf View Post
    Im sure this putz never had an oppertunity to shake hands with death. Ive been there, done that,and have the T shirt. I gurantee you will seek God or pray God is watching over you when you are in a potentialy deadly situation.

    Bob Wolf.
    You "gurantee [sic] it"?
    I was positive that my life was about to be suddenly ended once - not in the military, or through violence, but through a sudden critical illness. The fear lasted just a few days, but it was as real as anything I've ever felt - and according to the doctors, not at all unfounded or exaggerated.

    I didn't seek God, nor pray that He was watching over me, because I don't believe your God exists.
    I recovered without the prayers or belief, just a couple surgeries.
    The problem with some Christians is that they simply cannot allow others the same freedom of beliefs they demand for themselves.
    I don't feel any need to try to persuade others to share my beliefs - it's enough for me to believe, I don't seek validation from others.
    That the Catholic church requires all children to be raised Catholic, and the Christians are exhorted to proselytize every chance they get makes me wonder: why is it so important for others to agree with your beliefs?
    I know what the church says, and I don't buy that, either.


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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by BobWolf View Post
    Im sure this putz never had an oppertunity to shake hands with death. Ive been there, done that,and have the T shirt. I gurantee you will seek God or pray God is watching over you when you are in a potentialy deadly situation.

    Bob Wolf.
    Could never figure out when someone goes thru surgery or some big medical procedure...they say thank god for getting me thru this...see I would thank the hell out of the medical staff and espically the doctor...there hard work and years of experience is what did it...
    And the nurses tending to your every need is who you really need to thank also...
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by asjssl View Post
    Could never figure out when someone goes thru surgery or some big medical procedure...they say thank god for getting me thru this...see I would thank the hell out of the medical staff and espically the doctor...there hard work and years of experience is what did it...
    And the nurses tending to your every need is who you really need to thank also...
    They can't thank both? I tend to think of it as a personal choice that has zilch to do with me so i would spend no time trying to figure it out.

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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by BobWolf View Post
    Im sure this putz never had an oppertunity to shake hands with death.
    Well speaking of putzes, here's a snippet of a what a devoted follower of Jeebus (who the particular putz quoted below has mistakenly misidentified for the genuine article: Jesus) had to say to Mr. Weinstein ... clearly in his own "kind" and "loving" Christian way:

    In my opinion, after hearing about your action regarding the Marine Corps and studying your website, you have convinced me that your only purpose in life is make a bundle of money, like otther media evangelists have done to date. You are only intersted in using seneitive subjects to improve your wealth and ego. I hope your evangelistic tent burns down around you and that God strikes you and leaves a great scar – death is to good for you but lasting pain and discomfort would serve a better purpose.

    I am a VMF-AW-122 Crusader veteran and will always be so. While you suggest you are speaking for military freedoms, you don’t speak for the many military veterans and active duty that I know. You would serve us better as a mine sweeper or rpg decoy.
    The full exchange can be read at the following link:

    Re: Death is too good for you (with responses) | Military Religious Freedom Foundation - Protecting the Constitutional Guarantee of Separation of Church and State in the United States Military

    That one seems relatively tame - at least when compared against former Navy Chaplain Gordon Klingenschimdt's alleged request (as quoted by Weinstein) ... "to Jesus to plunder my (Weinstein's) fields ... seize my assets, kill me and my family then wipe away our descendants for 10 generations."

    Dallas Morning News - Front Page Story - Lawyer Sues to Stop Dallas Group's Prayers That He Says Call for Violence, Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobWolf View Post
    Ive been there, done that,and have the T shirt. I gurantee you will seek God or pray God is watching over you when you are in a potentialy deadly situation.
    I wouldn't want to presume what another person might or might not seek when facing a potentialy deadly situation ... but this I can tell you: not all folks facing death fear it ... or what might follow ...

    BTW, this "putz" as you refer to him was a JAG officer (military lawyer) for ten years, served as the first General Counsel for Ross Perot and Perot Systems, as well as serving as Assistant General Counsel to The White House Office of Administration, Executive Office of The President, under President Ronald Reagan.
    Last edited by RLENT; 05-01-2013 at 11:46 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    Quote Originally Posted by xiggi View Post
    They can't thank both? I tend to think of it as a personal choice that has zilch to do with me so i would spend no time trying to figure it out.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EO Forums mobile app
    Sure..but you never hear that part..never hear anyone thanking doctor/hospital or modern medicine for that heart bypass surgery.. it always thank god and prayers got you thru it ....no...it was a good doctor and modern medicine..give credit where credit is due...
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    Re: Pentagon considers abolishing all Christian witnessing, proselytizing

    My dad was an excellent doctor. He often got thanks for his work, cards, flowers, plants and other things. Along with frequent appreciation from his patients he also frequently heard thanks that God had led them to such a good doctor. If one isn't against God one can acknowledge that healing can often be the result of the combination of God and prayers and a good doctor.
    A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man's heart directs him toward the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2 NASB
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    It's okay if you disagree. I can't force you to be correct.

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