The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States

**layoutshooter** · 03-07-2010, 01:42 PM

Hey OilerMan, good to see you again!! I wonder, you talked about a couple of things in earlier posts, could you have had one of them backwards and the other just wrong?

The post where you talked about the man who paid his own and paid less. The bill that the man who covers his own is a much better reflection of what that proceedure should cost. Insurance drives UP the cost of health care. I believe that ALL health care insurance and government programs be shut down and then the price of health care would come down into affordable ranges.

To say that our health care is the most expensive does NOT take into account the massive, crippling taxes that are needed to pay for "cheap" health care. It was a given when we lived in England that everything on the British economy cost at least twice as much as it did in the U.S. It was all in taxes. Taxes that kept unemployment high, stopped most upward mobility and kept people in their place. Just as the "progressive" income tax does here. It also does not take into account the quality and availability of health care. It does not take into account the rationing of health care either.

Every American should be required to live in England for a few years and be subject to a Nation, single payer system, then and only then will they understand all sides of the issue. There are a few good things about it but for the most part is hurts the people, destroys the work ethic and keeps them in their place where they belong, at least where their ruling class things that they belong.

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by mjolnir131

Wow that a subtle understatement in the first sentence,and most of the offers the union refuses would leave the employee the top leader in the area for wages and benefiters, the union choose which factories close of there own votation way more than management forces them into it.more often than not it's that way so the union can claim we stood up to them see.

Well for one thing, people tend to buy on what they make, so when an offer of 6 or 7 dollar an hour pay cut is on the table alot of people will lose what they have. And i know, it doesnt affect you so who cares, thats there problem. I have seen the unions do alot for both union and non union people but some chose not to look for those things, thats up to them. Union or non-union, its has become a race to the bottom as is heard so much. As far as im concerened, its a shame anyone has to work in a factory for 10 dollars an hour. but such is life as we know it today. When this pay scale hits the expediting industry the crying will begin, and its coming, sooner then later

**chefdennis** · 03-07-2010, 01:48 PM

Come on Greg!! It is typical of the liberal left to attack the messenger because they either don't understand the message or can't argue with it.....

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by layoutshooter

Hey OilerMan, good to see you again!! I wonder, you talked about a couple of things in earlier posts, could you have had one of them backwards and the other just wrong?

The post where you talked about the man who paid his own and paid less. The bill that the man who covers his own is a much better reflection of what that proceedure should cost. Insurance drives UP the cost of health care. I believe that ALL health care insurance and government programs be shut down and then the price of health care would come down into affordable ranges.

To say that our health care is the most expensive does NOT take into account the massive, crippling taxes that are needed to pay for "cheap" health care. It was a given when we lived in England that everything on the British economy cost at least twice as much as it did in the U.S. It was all in taxes. Taxes that kept unemployment high, stopped most upward mobility and kept people in their place. Just as the "progressive" income tax does here. It also does not take into account the quality and availability of health care. It does not take into account the rationing of health care either.

Every American should be required to live in England for a few years and be subject to a Nation, single payer system, then and only then will they understand all sides of the issue. There are a few good things about it but for the most part is hurts the people, destroys the work ethic and keeps them in their place where they belong, at least where their ruling class things that they belong.

Hey Layout< miss me? hahaha

What i am saying is that a self payer is charged less because they have a higher markup for people that have insurance because they know they will collect from the insurance but they dont know how long it may take to collect from a self pay.

And you may be right about if you shut them all down the cost would come down, But that isnt going to happen.

**layoutshooter** · 03-07-2010, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Oilerman1957

Hey Layout< miss me? hahaha

What i am saying is that a self payer is charged less because they have a higher markup for people that have insurance because they know they will collect from the insurance but they dont know how long it may take to collect from a self pay.

And you may be right about if you shut them all down the cost would come down, But that isnt going to happen.

The markup is higher for insurance claims vs. self pay. That is why I say make it law, self pay only. Period. You are right, it won't happen, too many people are just too lazy, too indoctranated and live with a sense of entitlement these days. Far too many people do not want to be responsible for themselves. That is just condeming the rest of us to pay for it. That is just NOT right!!

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by greg334

Oilerman, I am a product of the Unionized Public School System and have to make up for the deficiencies that were forced upon me by teachers who didn't give a sh*t.

I make no appoligizes for my hatred of public schools and the abuse that is forced on the students who attend them, that madness should end as it has become more destructive to the country than anything else - including Muslim Extremist.

My style of writing can be improved, as anyone elses can but puffery, don't think so. Take the time to read it, it makes sense most of the time.

Your style of writing is excellent, your way of proving a point is excellent, hats off to you. I just dont agree that everything the unions do is bad, some is, some isnt. But i do know a large company is not going to care one bit about you and will do whatever it pleases without a union cause you have no recoarse other then quit. As far as people being deficiet, that happens in union and non-union places, thats people.

**mjolnir131** · 03-07-2010, 01:58 PM

NO,NO,NO it does effect me it effects all of us, when the rest of us have to downsize the play toys and yet there are groups refusing to do so and demand even more. it effects everybody. most union works in Cent ill could take a 6 dollar and hour hit and still be 5 to 10 dollars an hour higher than most workers around here so it's not a living wage it a living higher on the hog wage. Don't get me wrong it's great if you can get it but we are defiantly in rhinectomy area of economic recovery. the unfavorable industrial climate has gotten down to looking like we don't what honest pay for honest work. we want uber pay for little or no work,again great if you can get it but very unrealistic to expect it

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by layoutshooter

The markup is higher for insurance claims vs. self pay. That is why I say make it law, self pay only. Period. You are right, it won't happen, too many people are just too lazy, too indoctranated and live with a sense of entitlement these days. Far too many people do not want to be responsible for themselves. That is just condeming the rest of us to pay for it. That is just NOT right!!

I tend to see it as there is way to much money in it for corporations to let a person handle it on there own. It always comes down to the dollar.

**layoutshooter** · 03-07-2010, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Oilerman1957

I tend to see it as there is way to much money in it for corporations to let a person handle it on there own. It always comes down to the dollar.

Outlaw insurance and the corporations will get out of it. That is the only reason that they got in.

Do you thing that the Federal government has the "right" or authority to force us to accept a single payer or government controlled system? How much force should they be allowed to use in insure that everyone in the country toes the party line? Do you really believe that the Kennedys, the Gates or the Opras will be subjected to the same force as you or I will be? I highly doubt that.

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by mjolnir131

NO,NO,NO it does effect me it effects all of us, when the rest of us have to downsize the play toys and yet there are groups refusing to do so and demand even more. it effects everybody. most union works in Cent ill could take a 6 dollar and hour hit and still be 5 to 10 dollars an hour higher than most workers around here so it's not a living wage it a living higher on the hog wage. Don't get me wrong it's great if you can get it but we are defiantly in rhinectomy area of economic recovery. the unfavorable industrial climate has gotten down to looking like we don't what honest pay for honest work. we want uber pay for little or no work,again great if you can get it but very unrealistic to expect it

I dont agree with the lil work or no work for high wages and that has been addressed a long time ago in those factorys. I just dont get why people hate seeing anyone making a good wage, believe it or not, when they make more money so do workers in a tool shop or at a supplier plant, by promoting they make to much is only going to eventually cut into your wages next as now ur wages are seen as to high No difference when you see panther cut crago vans to 70 cents a mile that forces fed-ex to cut the pay of there drivers Funny thigs is, the corporations now have use complaining about the other blue collar pay, they got us right where they want us and laughing all the way to the bank. sad

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by layoutshooter

Outlaw insurance and the corporations will get out of it. That is the only reason that they got in.

Do you thing that the Federal government has the "right" or authority to force us to accept a single payer or government controlled system? How much force should they be allowed to use in insure that everyone in the country toes the party line? Do you really believe that the Kennedys, the Gates or the Opras will be subjected to the same force as you or I will be? I highly doubt that.

Nope. None, Nope But i have learned that im not in the position to make the rules, so i try to work the rules to my advantage.

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by chefdennis

Come on Greg!! It is typical of the liberal left to attack the messenger because they either don't understand the message or can't argue with it.....

Didnt you just call me a name? hahahaha

**layoutshooter** · 03-07-2010, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Oilerman1957

Nope. None, Nope But i have learned that im not in the position to make the rules, so i try to work the rules to my advantage.

So you would condone the use of force against US citizens to insure your access to health care? How much force?

**Oilerman1957** · 03-07-2010, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by layoutshooter

So you would condone the use of force against US citizens to insure your access to health care? How much force?

Nope, no force should be used, i dont even pretend to have the answer to make it all work.

**layoutshooter** · 03-07-2010, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Oilerman1957

Nope, no force should be used, i dont even pretend to have the answer to make it all work.

The current bills can use force to make a private citizen buy a policy that they choose not too. There are fines, what happens when a citizen refuses to buy a government approved policy, which is his/her/it's right to refuse, and then refuses to pay the fines?

Does the use of fines/force advance the idea of freedom or degrade it? If it is such a good idea why would force even be considered? Will the creation of another class of crimes help?