The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States

[mjolnir131]

Oilman though you're correct about the governing class being thieves,they usually give themselves an exception when a bill is totally fubared, leaving us to pay for it solely,and we keep voting for them!

[Oilerman1957]

Oiler wrote:



hmmmm well since i don't support either and am a registered independent and a member of the "Constitution Party"...Constitution Party National Political Headquarters...

I guess they didn't do a very good job huh.....

Oh and in case you are interested,

but your pro union entitlement mentality wouldn't fit in too well....its more a group that believes in "Self Reliance" not a handout from the government or the efforts a labor organization to "share the wealth" and make "the man pay" their way.....

I dont know of them, but your cut and paste seem to only be against the liberals, if you support neither then where are the cut n paste against the conservative party? or they do nothing wrong? Kinda hard to be an independent an be a member of a certain party isnt it? aka constitution party.

What does belonging to a union have to do with anything, I still think for myself The union does a contract with a company just as you have one with Bolt, no difference

[OntarioVanMan]

Someone mentioned Mexico as a corrupt government? *LOL*

Just look around buddy...the US has one the most corrupt on BOTH sides of the room...

[greg334]

We dont allow anyone who is sick access to health care?, No we dont, as long as you have money or insurance to pay for it.

You know what, my statement is very true. We as a country and system do not refuse health care to anyone.

I am proof, I had no job, no insurance and I was sick. I worked with the doctors and hospital and survived. Yes I was in debt but nothing is for free.

What ruined it has been a few things;

Lazy people - expecting something for nothing and when something doesn't go their way, they sue and cry about it

Medicare/Medicaid - having taken the responsibility away from the patient

Unions - forcing a situation of even more lack of responsibility and the attitude "I deserve"

The solution is so simple, make the people be involved with the payment of their own health care. If they are too busy or too lazy, then that's just too FB.

We dont have poor people is this country? Thats just funny, Cant even comment on that one.

You don't have to comment because it's very true.

OUR POOR are NOT POOR.

Our poor are rich by the standards of what poor is.

These are the same standards use to judge us and how we take care of our poor. OK so our poor isn't driving new cars all the time but health care access is still a lot higher than those in other countries where there is a doctor for every 10,000 people but no real supplies.

In our country, wealth and lack of it has more to do with the person and their attitude than it ever has to do or did the class, their skin color or any other factor that is prevalent in other countries.

We never thought in terms of class until the Unions started to talk about it and how they convinced people that we are just like Europe - them against us. We never had to deal with closed shops and backwards thinking. Our economy flourished without the back breaking need to make people equal and people had opportunities to make something of themselves - all has changed because of these stupid attitudes of "I deserve because I am".

When you travel and go to places like;

Botswana,
Somalia
Kenya
Liberia
Ghana
Tanzania
Ethiopia
Sudan

then you can talk about how badly our poor have it here.

Once you see real poverty by the world's standards and what it is really like, then you will understand that we have no poor in this country.

How many of these countries have fresh water access?

Do you know how much time it takes to get water in some of these villages?

Sometimes a group of people will travel to a guarded water well that is polluted and fill their two gallon buckets up to take back to the their village, and it takes them one full day to do this.

Here our poor get free money to buy soda, chips and dip so they can relax from their hard day of shopping by sitting in front of their LCD TV and talking on their government paid cell phone.

How many countries provide poor people with cell phones, free food and free individual housing and don't ask them to put back into the system while they are taking advantage of it?

The important question that no one seems to want to answer is this when they seem to talk about Our Poor is this;

How can a person from any of those countries I listed come here and become a millionaire within 10 years but our people can't seem to find a way to feed their families or hold down a job?

We have the highest cost per person for health care in the world.

Yep we sure do but we also have the BEST care in the world. I would like to see some who keep saying that we need to change go live in England where the cost does really matter and controlled by ways that affect the person. When you hit 65, you lose some of your benefits, like life saving operations or treatments. Or if you live in Norway or Denmark where euthanasia takes place with the families permission but not the patients, it is great to rid the older ones who are costing the most amount of money.

I'm all for ending Medicare and Medicaid for those who want to change my health care. I'm all for limiting Social Security on those over 90, it isn't your money anyways but the governments.

The spin off to the cost of health care is improvements in the system to reduce the costs - one thing many seem to forget even after they get that bill in the mail. Most of the nice things that other countries now enjoy to prolong the citizens lives happened here first and we paid for them. Many of the drugs that we depend on were discovered here.

What people are forgetting is your paying for people who dont have health insurance through your premiums anyways. Thats a fact.

Many of us see through that BS line - that's the true fact!

The cost of my premium has more to do with the mandates and the lawsuits than it ever has to do with under or unfunded payments to the providers by the patients - in other words it doesn't affect what I pay.

However what does affect what I pay is the bargaining by large groups of lazy people who think health care is a right. It is the idea that they can go into the emergency room on Sunday morning to get fixed to return to work because they were so drunk From Friday till Sunday morning.

It matters that the states prevent us from going across state lines or how they force insurance companies to operate within their boundaries because of monies collected, kind of puts a stop to savings.

Mandates, like tattoo removal or what ever is also killing us - someone has to pay for it and if it is an elective thing that doesn't prolong or improve the life of the person, it should not be done.

[Oilerman1957]

Oilman though you're correct about the governing class being thieves,they usually give themselves an exception when a bill is totally fubared, leaving us to pay for it solely,and we keep voting for them!

The middle class or lower class are not represented in Washington at all. Until we decide to vote for people who are not related to the demos or republicans we will continue to get the same results. Vote in a plumber, trucker, factory worker, vote in anyone who is not a professional politician.

[chefdennis]

You are right As a Independent i lean towards the conservative side because they lean "right" and towards the Constitution and Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence...the liberal left wants to destroy the constitution and everything that this country is built on....free healthcare!?!? Where is that "RIGHT" written!?!? What happen to taking care if ones self instead of the "entitlement mentality !?!? "its their right to healthcare!?!? Is that right bestowed on them as a birth right, given just because they were born!?!? So yea I bust ion the left liberals everytime i can......and i also bust on the right whn it is the thing to do....i have said more then once that bush was more of a dem when he spent our tax dollars but i was all for his war policy..as a matter of fact, i think he was too weak in that policy in alot of stances.....

as for being member of the Constitution Party, the Independent Registration is for voting, I do NOT declare a party and when was the last time you seen a 3rd party listed so that you could declare for that party?? So I register as a Independent for voting purposes..and vote for the canidate that best fits with my political ideas...and that was bush senior, bill Clinton at one time and gw bush both times and ron paul the last time....while i didn't agree with all of their ways of doing things, they each leaned towards my way of thinking at the time.....

[Oilerman1957]

You are right As a Independent i lean towards the conservative side because they lean "right" and towards the Constitution and Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence...the liberal left wants to destroy the constitution and everything that this country is built on....free healthcare!?!? Where is that "RIGHT" written!?!? What happen to taking care if ones self instead of the "entitlement mentality !?!? "its their right to healthcare!?!? Is that right bestowed on them as a birth right, given just because they were born!?!? So yea I bust ion the left liberals everytime i can......and i also bust on the right whn it is the thing to do....i have said more then once that bush was more of a dem when he spent our tax dollars but i was all for his war policy..as a matter of fact, i think he was too weak in that policy in alot of stances.....

as for being member of the Constitution Party, the Independent Registration is for voting, I do NOT declare a party and when was the last time you seen a 3rd party listed so that you could declare for that party?? So I register as a Independent for voting purposes..and vote for the canidate that best fits with my political ideas...and that was bush senior, bill Clinton at one time and gw bush both times and ron paul the last time....while i didn't agree with all of their ways of doing things, they each leaned towards my way of thinking at the time.....

I have never read anything about free health care, post a link to that. And no, the liberals dont want to destroy this country, thats just crazy talk. Maybe they have different ideas then you but destroying this country isnt one of them. Wasnt it Bush that let them listen in on any conversation on a phone, Isnt that against the constitution?

[Oilerman1957]

You know what, my statement is very true. We as a country and system do not refuse health care to anyone.

I am proof, I had no job, no insurance and I was sick. I worked with the doctors and hospital and survived. Yes I was in debt but nothing is for free.

What ruined it has been a few things;

Lazy people - expecting something for nothing and when something doesn't go their way, they sue and cry about it

Medicare/Medicaid - having taken the responsibility away from the patient

Unions - forcing a situation of even more lack of responsibility and the attitude "I deserve"

The solution is so simple, make the people be involved with the payment of their own health care. If they are too busy or too lazy, then that's just too FB.



You don't have to comment because it's very true.

OUR POOR are NOT POOR.

Our poor are rich by the standards of what poor is.

These are the same standards use to judge us and how we take care of our poor. OK so our poor isn't driving new cars all the time but health care access is still a lot higher than those in other countries where there is a doctor for every 10,000 people but no real supplies.

In our country, wealth and lack of it has more to do with the person and their attitude than it ever has to do or did the class, their skin color or any other factor that is prevalent in other countries.

We never thought in terms of class until the Unions started to talk about it and how they convinced people that we are just like Europe - them against us. We never had to deal with closed shops and backwards thinking. Our economy flourished without the back breaking need to make people equal and people had opportunities to make something of themselves - all has changed because of these stupid attitudes of "I deserve because I am".

When you travel and go to places like;

Botswana,
Somalia
Kenya
Liberia
Ghana
Tanzania
Ethiopia
Sudan

then you can talk about how badly our poor have it here.

Once you see real poverty by the world's standards and what it is really like, then you will understand that we have no poor in this country.

How many of these countries have fresh water access?

Do you know how much time it takes to get water in some of these villages?

Sometimes a group of people will travel to a guarded water well that is polluted and fill their two gallon buckets up to take back to the their village, and it takes them one full day to do this.

Here our poor get free money to buy soda, chips and dip so they can relax from their hard day of shopping by sitting in front of their LCD TV and talking on their government paid cell phone.

How many countries provide poor people with cell phones, free food and free individual housing and don't ask them to put back into the system while they are taking advantage of it?

The important question that no one seems to want to answer is this when they seem to talk about Our Poor is this;

How can a person from any of those countries I listed come here and become a millionaire within 10 years but our people can't seem to find a way to feed their families or hold down a job?



Yep we sure do but we also have the BEST care in the world. I would like to see some who keep saying that we need to change go live in England where the cost does really matter and controlled by ways that affect the person. When you hit 65, you lose some of your benefits, like life saving operations or treatments. Or if you live in Norway or Denmark where euthanasia takes place with the families permission but not the patients, it is great to rid the older ones who are costing the most amount of money.

I'm all for ending Medicare and Medicaid for those who want to change my health care. I'm all for limiting Social Security on those over 90, it isn't your money anyways but the governments.

The spin off to the cost of health care is improvements in the system to reduce the costs - one thing many seem to forget even after they get that bill in the mail. Most of the nice things that other countries now enjoy to prolong the citizens lives happened here first and we paid for them. Many of the drugs that we depend on were discovered here.



Many of us see through that BS line - that's the true fact!

The cost of my premium has more to do with the mandates and the lawsuits than it ever has to do with under or unfunded payments to the providers by the patients - in other words it doesn't affect what I pay.

However what does affect what I pay is the bargaining by large groups of lazy people who think health care is a right. It is the idea that they can go into the emergency room on Sunday morning to get fixed to return to work because they were so drunk From Friday till Sunday morning.

It matters that the states prevent us from going across state lines or how they force insurance companies to operate within their boundaries because of monies collected, kind of puts a stop to savings.

Mandates, like tattoo removal or what ever is also killing us - someone has to pay for it and if it is an elective thing that doesn't prolong or improve the life of the person, it should not be done.

Yea, ok, the insurance company cares about you, hahahaha

[mjolnir131]

Nothing is inherently wrong with Unions outside the fact they have not been for the rank and file for decades,and they appear to use less than honorable tactics to enforce there contracts or passage of said item.

Closing factories because they don't or can't met your demands only hurts the rank and file,the little guy.(Cat,IH to name a few)

hell just this week Cat offered to place some of the worker who lost there jobs when mossville closed and the UAW refused. oh yea they are really taking care of the worker.

[greg334]

What middle class? We lost that in the 30's as we did the lower class.

Most of what today's middle class is can be divided up into different groups and most of the groups are told who to vote for. Even though you may think for yourself, the union mindset is perfect for people being told what to do, there is a lack of independence within any Union and politics is one area that is great for a professional politician because he knows many Union members are followers and will vote for to further the Union cause.

Oh and by the way maybe you never been told this but the idea that your bill is different from your fiends bill is not because you are paying for him but rather how the insurance subscription of the hospital was negotiated. When an hospital or provider agrees to take an insurance, there is a whole bunch of things going on to agree on prices.

Part of the agreement is the hospital takes what the insurance company pays them but most of it is based on a pay scale that is negotiated with them on an individial basis. There are standard procedure costs that are established through the AMA and other orgfanizations and these are used as a baseline for negotiations. Many times the procedure is only 5% above cost of the hospital, and that costs includes a lot more than just the actual cost of the procedure - like administration and billing cost, sometimes even follow ups are included in the overall price.

When the billing takes place, if a procedure doesn't agree with the diagnosis code and the medical standards used for them, then the insurance company kicks it back the hospital for either further explanation and resubmission (more cost to the hospital) or for the patient to pay for it - most of the time the patient is stuck with the bill.

Make sense so far?

Most hospitals have a self-pay scale of charges that are reduced in cost because it reflects a number of factors, like the lack of an adjudication process for payment and a lack of the need to us the billing process all in order to get paid. Many hospitals prefer self-payers because it saves them a lot of money in the long run.

[chefdennis]

You bet it was against the Constitution as is most of what the DHS does, and i have yelled about that from the start...As far as free health care...just how do you think all of those welfare bums are going to pay for their care?? the same why they do now, with the Dems entitlement groups...free medical care...and some others will even get a government handout to "offset" the part of the health insurance they can't pay for under "barrycare"......

oiler wrote:

Yea, ok, the insurance company cares about you, hahahaha

LOL, out of all that greg wrote, that is all that you found to take exception with!?!? And I don't even see where he mentioned that the insurance companies care for anyone....So I guess you pretty much agree with him on the rest huh!?!? LOL....

[Oilerman1957]

Nothing is inherently wrong with Unions outside the fact they have not been for the rank and file for decades,and they appear to use less than honorable tactics to enforce there contracts or passage of said item.

Closing factories because they don't or can't met your demands only hurts the rank and file,the little guy.(Cat,IH to name a few)

hell just this week Cat offered to place some of the worker who lost there jobs when mossville closed and the UAW refused. oh yea they are really taking care of the worker.

The union doesnt do everything right, as far as the job offers i dont know where those offers were to. I just dropped off at a cat plant in the south, was talking to the receiving guy and he was telling me how they just came in and slashed there wages, nothing they could do. Most of the time when a company choses to close a plant they are going to close it, they make sure the unions wont accept there offer to keep a plant open.

[Oilerman1957]

You bet it was against the Constitution as is most of what the DHS does, and i have yelled about that from the start...As far as free health care...just how do you think all of those welfare bums are going to pay for their care?? the same why they do now, with the Dems entitlement groups...free medical care...and some others will even get a government handout to "offset" the part of the health insurance they can't pay for under "barrycare"......

oiler wrote:



LOL, out of all that greg wrote, that is all that you found to take exception with!?!? And I don't even see where he mentioned that the insurance companies care for anyone....So I guess you pretty much agree with him on the rest huh!?!? LOL....

Nah, he just writes so much stuff thats puffery

[mjolnir131]

The union doesn't do everything right, as far as the job offers i don't know where those offers were to. I just dropped off at a cat plant in the south, was talking to the receiving guy and he was telling me how they just came in and slashed there wages, nothing they could do. Most of the time when a company choses to close a plant they are going to close it, they make sure the unions wont accept there offer to keep a plant open.

Wow that a subtle understatement in the first sentence,and most of the offers the union refuses would leave the employee the top leader in the area for wages and benefiters, the union choose which factories close of there own votation way more than management forces them into it.more often than not it's that way so the union can claim we stood up to them see.

[greg334]

Oilerman, I am a product of the Unionized Public School System and have to make up for the deficiencies that were forced upon me by teachers who didn't give a sh*t.

I make no appoligizes for my hatred of public schools and the abuse that is forced on the students who attend them, that madness should end as it has become more destructive to the country than anything else - including Muslim Extremist.

My style of writing can be improved, as anyone elses can but puffery, don't think so. Take the time to read it, it makes sense most of the time.