barry BOWS AGAIN

[chefdennis]

And you can bet he apologized for something also....

Obama bows before Japanese Emperor!!!!!!!

How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow

Take a look at the picture here: (sorry the link works now)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...ito-japan.html

[LDB]

How low will he go? Well, when you are lower than the belly of a sidewinder to begin with as well as too stupid/ignorant for the job you are unqualified for there's no telling.

[greg334]

He didn't do it right.

Hey we are now subordinates to the Japanese.

D*mn you MacArthur for running interference of those who wanted to dismantlement the Japanese Imperial House and executing Hirohito.

[aristotle]

Greg... I have a lot of respect for the Japanese people. Japan is a small island nation, doesn't have much in the way of natural resources, yet continues to be an industrial superpower. They exhibit an intense devotion to hard work and family. Pretty good capitalists and they love baseball.

Japan will, out of necessity, begin to assert itself militarily in the not too distant future. Yes, their constitution as written by MacArthur, strictly limits their standing army and navy. However, being under America's protection isn't what it used to be. I imagine when Japan's leadership observes Obama's weakness... they must conclude if Obama won't take strong stands to defend the USA, well... he certainly cannot be counted upon to defend Japan from aggressors. Japan can and should defend herself. We could not ask for a better ally than Japan, with the exception of Canada and Great Britain.

The Japanese are tenacious fighters. More importantly, they represent a successful democracy in the Pacific Rim. I admire their unity and social cohesion. Their unity is their strength.

[greg334]

Aristotle,
I too have respect for them, but not as much as you appear to have. My issues have been about revisionist history and other issues surrounding their inability to face the truth as a nation.

The impression I have gotten from them is we are supposed to apologizes for our "atrocities" but when it comes down to theirs, we must over look them because they were doing their duty for their God.

They are a resilient people but they have in their minds that they are better than their neighbors which comes from their history.

As far as being a political and military force, they have a rather largely armed and a defensive force, but Article 9 doesn't limit the amount of military arms and men for Japan just limits their use.

Irregardless, MacArthur didn't do his duty be fullfilling the wishes of the people to bring justice to Japan as done in Germany and he and he alone allowed a lot of things to just go away to protect Hirohito and others within the family.

[Tennesseahawk]

We killed their fighting spirit. And by keeping the emperor alive, we let them keep their dignity, and gained their respect.

[greg334]

We had their respect as a conquerers by fighting them as warriors, we lost it when we tried to help them. They fully expected to be subjugated as they subjugated the Chinese and Malaysians. This is illustrated by the movement in '46 with a number of Japanese who pushed Japan to become a state of the United States.

MacArthur protected Hirohito not because of any need to gain respect, he slapped the japanese hard in the face and the emporor lost a lot of face with a single photograph of both of them standing looking at the camera when MacArthur told Hirohito to go to him and met him at the Allied HQ, it was such a shock to the japanese people that a few committed suicide. He protected Hirohito as one who wanted to play politics, unlike Eisenhower who didn't, MacArthur took the role as potentate of Japan where Eisenhower was determined to clean house in Germany. Remember Eisenhower slapped Patton around on the issue of havnig former Nazis run some of the infrastructure during de-natificaion of the country where MacArthur insisted on people working in the same jobs as before without any changes or worries of what crimes they committed.

The idea of the warrior concent can be better illustrated when the Japanese took the first British and Aussie POWs, they expected the POWs to cooperate with them because they were thinking that the British and Aussies were equal warriors because they fought hard. This was in early 1942. It changed when the POWs told the Japanese commanders that their credo as POWs were to anything in their power to fight the enemy and if they can escape. This turned the Japanese against the POWs.

[Tennesseahawk]

You can't compare Nazis and Japanese. One is a political party that made it 12 yrs, the other is a culture that's made it thru centuries doing the same thing successfully. So no, they can't be treated the same.

[jimby82]

This literally has made me sick to my stomach. What a slap to the face of those servicemen who fought and died fighting the Japanese Empire, especially coming so soon following Veterans Day. I sure very few of them ever thought they would EVER live see the day when the American President bowed to the Japanese emperor.

I personally hold no ill feelings toward the Japanese people today, but such was not the case of my Mother. She lost a brother (my uncle) in WWII. He died in one of the camps in the Philippines after being captured on Corregidor. (He was aboard the USS Canopus, and was captured, then died in the camp later in 1942. - Interesting story about the ship, if you got time to read it.) She really never got over that, hating the Japanese up to day she passed.

I grew up in Middletown, Oh. Every year they have (had?) a festival they called "Mid-Fest". Every year would feature the products and culture of a different country over the span of a week or so. They would have displays and booths set up around the city administration building downtown. The year that Japan was featured, Mom and I went downtown to pay a bill for something. She saw the Japanese flag flying, and became very upset and agitated. (I'd seen mom mad before, but nothing really like this.) Anyway, she wanted to tear all those flags down and was determined to do so.

I actually had to pick her up and carry her back to the car, with her kicking and screaming all the way. I imagine she would have been arrested had I not stepped in. I had a hard time understanding what set her off, but man was she ticked!

My point is, those of us who never really lived through "the war" can't really understand what this gesture really means to those who did. My guess, there are quite a few "old-timers", just fit to be tied. What a shame.

[greg334]

You can't compare Nazis and Japanese. One is a political party that made it 12 yrs, the other is a culture that's made it thru centuries doing the same thing successfully. So no, they can't be treated the same.

Actually you can because both are cultures, both take an oath to a leader and both were and expected to die in the service of that leader.

The mindset of the Europeans at that time were the result of centuries of conditioning and like I said in the past, the Germans didn't understand the concept of a democracy or self-governing and that was one of the reasons Hitler and the NSAP got into power - they needed to be led - Goring said it at Nuremberg that the people were lost and needed to be led.

[RLENT]

We could not ask for a better ally than Japan ........

Yeah ...... after bombing two of their cities with nuclear weapons and killing 100's of thousands of civilians (the only nation on this planet ever to do so) it certainly does say something that they would continue to remain our friends .......

I rather doubt that many here in this country would be able to rise to that level. The Japanese are certainly to be admired for it - as well the other aspects of their unique culture which aristotle rightly points out.

As for the original premise of this thread, it's almost ludicrous ..... and would seem to indicate complete and utter ignorance of Japanese customs .... to say nothing of grasping at straws in abject desperation.

Bowing in Japanese culture is one of their traditions, and has a long history. At the most basic, it is a greeting not dissimilar to a handshake in western culture, and is intended to show respect - although certain bows can mean many other things. Children are taught to bow at a very early age, and in the corporate world, training is provided to employees to ensure that they know how to execute bows correctly.

The Japanese often do not bow when dealing with foreigners, instead shaking hands - owing to the fact that foreigners are often unfamiliar with the details and etiquette of the practice. Indeed it appears that that is exactly what happened in the instance being discussed here.

If one wished to actually understand what it means (as opposed to just spouting off in complete ignorance) one could go here Bowing and do a little reading, although I am sure there are many other places on the 'net where one might enhance one's familiarity with the subject.

It has been said: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do ...."

This fairly simple premise is designed to show the wisdom of extending the courtesy of respect for the traditions and customs of those who you would wish to remain on good terms with, when in their land, or in their house. It is the mark of good social manners, and is indeed good diplomacy (regardless of the political affiliation of those who might practice it)

A strong man (representing a nation) who lacks humility, who lords his dominance over others, who is intent on nothing but degrading and minimizing others, shows only contempt for his contemporaries, is nothing but a bully and should be subject to the scorn of all.

And a nation who would have such a man as their leader, representing them ..... well, you get the point ....

My post is not about the specific individual involved (Obama) - it is about the premise of good diplomacy, and showing some respect for others.

[greg334]

Sorry Rlent, I would agree with your post but in the diplomatic world, bowing to a Japanese official of equal stature is done either to apologize or indicating servitude. The correct diplomatic greeting would be to shake hands and nothing else.

In the culture, the superiors do not bow to inferior people, it is not an open greeting but a complex greeting base on station in life, your job and even gender. Equals will bow outside of the diplomatic world, it is a very shallow bow.

The degree of bowing also matters, Obama there is a "I am so sorry for what I did" bow, a seriously deep and horrific bow.

[copdsux]

Nixon bowed to Japanese Emperor Hirahito, the WWII despot. Eisenhour bowed to Charles
DeGaulle, the wife of an Italian Prime Minister, and Pope John XXIII. You guys need to make use of the internet machine before posting this drivel.

[Steady Eddie]

Nixon bowed to Japanese Emperor Hirahito, the WWII despot. Eisenhour bowed to Charles
DeGaulle, the wife of an Italian Prime Minister, and Pope John XXIII. You guys need to make use of the internet machine before posting this drivel.

And Bush one did something.....humm what was it????

[iceroadtrucker]

Here we go again the same ole thing. The computer Rambos here are at it again. Two wrongs dont make a right.

He is the Commander and Chief and untill his term is up like it our not he needs to be supported.
Be glad you are in a country you got freedom of Speech.
A mighty Wonderful Country it is dont you agree.
Have a nice day.