Buy Health Insurance or Go to Jail...

**chefdennis** · 11-06-2009, 10:18 PM

Yeap thats nancy and barrys idea of how the gov should work....1st the government feels they have the right to force the people to buy and pay for health insurance, then they feel that even though that is illegal and unconstitutional, they will imprison those who don't compile...But Wait, I thought the Dems were the party for the working class people...they are all about helping those in need....seems like good help here....

Press Releases

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail

JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail

Friday, November 06, 2009
Jim Billimoria or Sage Eastman (202) 226-4774
House Committee on Ways & Means - Republican

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

- - - - - - - - - -

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

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“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.

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**LDB** · 11-06-2009, 11:35 PM

That's just how arrogant Pelosi and the rest of those liberal *******s and *****es are. We will only see things improve when they are eliminated from all influence whatsoever.

**greg334** · 11-06-2009, 11:38 PM

Jail isn't going to be that bad, see after they get through with you with the CSA 2010 and you lose your priviledge to drive a commercial vehicle, you will be without a job and won't be able to find work with the 14% unemployment and not qualify to go on any assistance programs so you will lose your health care and the when you get to the hospital and they stabilize you for you nervous breakdown, the men from the Department of Health Care and Insurance will come by and pick you up to take you to jail where you will get the proper medication, food, housing and even provide you with neat looking uniforms and a job in the prison work house - it won't be as bad as you think.

**layoutshooter** · 11-07-2009, 09:05 AM

Well, the sheeple wanted change, they asked for a socialist wacko government, they got it. The camps ARE coming. The left is the same everywhere it goes. How many millions are they going to murder this century? How many will be inprisioned in gulags again? Still support these criminals? At least I can say that I NEVER did.

**chefdennis** · 11-07-2009, 11:36 AM

Layout wrote:

Well, the sheeple wanted change, they asked for a socialist wacko government, they got it. The camps ARE coming. The left is the same everywhere it goes. How many millions are they going to murder this century? How many will be inprisioned in gulags again?

Still support these criminals? At least I can say that I NEVER did

.

its amazing that those on here that supported him and told everyone to give him time, he desrves time, are no where on here to be found...guess they just don't have any realistic reasons for their support other then he told them he would "provide" for them through his "entitlement" share the wealth and take from the greedy and give to them who are "needy" and don't have as much as those that have...because it ain't fair...mentality...

Wonder why they don't come and support barry...he needs them now more then ever.....since he is failing...

**layoutshooter** · 11-07-2009, 01:19 PM

Oh but Chef, Barry is NOT failing. He is WINNING!! His goal all along was to turn us into a Soviet Style or German Style state and he is DOING it!! He is over seeing the take over of banking, the auto industry and now health care. Steel will come soon as will control of farming. Where are the sheeple? Either still praising this vile man and government or hiding in shame. They have NOT the courage to stand up and say, I was wrong and we must stop this now. COWARDS.

**pjjjjj** · 11-07-2009, 01:34 PM

Forgive me if I'm asking a stupid question or making a stupid comment, as I don't keep up on the day-to-day happenings re your healthcare bills.

What I'm getting tho, is that many Americans are totally against having the type of healthcare we have over here, where everyone (except illegal aliens) is covered, for whatever reasons you have (thoughts of inferior healthcare, whatever)..

At the same time, actually paying for healthcare services is way too expensive for normal people to afford if they actually get sick and need surgery / hospitalization, so they have to have an insurance plan to cover them for that possibility.

Then there are lots of people who can't afford the insurance, so they have none. They skim by without paying for anything, until such time as they become sick and need surgery / hospitalization. No insurance, can't afford the costs they're incurring... so who pays those bills? Someone does. Is it the government?

If lots of people with no insurance are getting sick and costing mega bucks, wouldn't it make sense to mandate that you must have insurance? What is the alternative? To continue to pay the outrageous healthcare bills for people who refuse to carry insurance?

As an outsider looking in, and admittedly not knowing all the details, it just seems to me that no matter what they try to do, they're wrong.

So..... what do you people who oppose 'free' healthcare for all legal residents, as well as opposing a mandated requirement to carry insurance, propose they do about this huge problem?

Should the sick that can't afford either healthcare or insurance be denied medical help? Is that your answer?

**layoutshooter** · 11-07-2009, 02:01 PM

In a FREE nation it falls on the individual to care for them selfs. Our health is costly do to MANY reasons, none of which is being addressed in ANY of these bills. Our health care will NOT cost less than it does now, it will cost more and the quality will go down. And last, the Federal government has NO LEGAL athority under OUR Constitution to require a PRIVATE citizen to buy ANYTHING!! Then using the FORCE of law, fines and jail to do it? Does NOT sound like a FREE country anymore. As to Canada's system, it is NOT my concern. I don't live there. I will fight it tooth and nail, I will NOT pay the fines and NOT submit to arrest. That is how a FREE man deals with the threat of tyranni.

**chefdennis** · 11-07-2009, 02:08 PM

pj wrote:

So..... what do you people who oppose 'free' healthcare for all legal residents, as well as opposing a mandated requirement to carry insurance, propose they do about this huge problem?

They are already taken care of my ENOUGH government programs, no one goes without because that is against the law...as for who should pay, the hospitals have programs that pay, charities pay, and yes tax dollars pay..

The problem is forcing the people to buy a product, that is also illegal and the governmet knows it is...it is beyond their power to force people to pay for something like insurance...it is a TAX...and that is all it is....

And who says healthcare is too expensive?? yea some care afford it, so that means those that can should be forced to pay for them??? sorry nope....

Does the system need fixed? yes it needs work, but not the overhaul that the government wants to dump on the people..and the penalties that will be imposed on the people are simply not right or legal...even f this bs bill is passed, it will be challenged in court....

Then there is the fact that the government will collect money with increases in taxes on the rich that have the bg insurance policies for 3 yrs before the program even goes into affect..."pay me today, for something you might get down the road"....wrong....

yes the system needs fixed, but not at the expense of the majority for the minority.....

Why no tort reform!?!? because the lawyers support the criminal politicians...h*ell they have made it easier for the lawyers to make money... lol then in another part of the bill, the doctors need the OK of a government panel to give some care...that same panel can deny a certain treatment, so the doctor can't forvide it...so later if it is found that that deied service would have saved the life of the person, the doctor that was not allowed to give that treatment because a government panel said no, can be sued, but not the government that turned down that treatment...so no tort reform is offered that would lower cost...

Where is the ability to buy insurance across state lines??? other then buying for the goverenment, or the "Co-ops" the people will still have to buy from the same companies that they do now, at increased prices , as long as the companies can stay in business and have to sell their product against the cheper government run programs.....

Yes the system needs to be fixed, but not at the expense of those that can afford to pay for their own, and certainly not with a government run system....

**cheri1122** · 11-07-2009, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by chefdennis

Layout wrote:

its amazing that those on here that supported him and told everyone to give him time, he desrves time, are no where on here to be found...guess they just don't have any realistic reasons for their support other then he told them he would "provide" for them through his "entitlement" share the wealth and take from the greedy and give to them who are "needy" and don't have as much as those that have...because it ain't fair...mentality...

Wonder why they don't come and support barry...he needs them now more then ever.....since he is failing...

My guess is the plastering of cut & paste and the lack of even a semblance of respect for any viewpoint contrary to the few who dominate the Soapbox now has driven them away.
As you've already said numerous times that you don't care what other members think, your 'wonderment' is pretty hypocritical, is it not?

**cheri1122** · 11-07-2009, 02:51 PM

Apologies - it was the Chef who said he doesn't care what anyone here thinks [about his wallpapering]. Nevertheless, the point remains: there is zero respect for any opposing viewpoint, which discourages participation from other members who may see things differently.
And who has time to refute the misinformation that we read here? I don't, so I just don't join in any more.
You guys have it all to yourselves now - enjoy. But don't bother asking why no one wants to 'discuss' issues, when you can't hear anything that disagrees without ridiculing the poster.

**chefdennis** · 11-07-2009, 03:09 PM

cheri wrote:

Apologies - it was the Chef who said he doesn't care what anyone here thinks [about his wallpapering]. Nevertheless, the point remains: there is zero respect for any opposing viewpoint, which discourages participation from other members who may see things differently.
And who has time to refute the misinformation that we read here? I don't, so I just don't join in any more.
You guys have it all to yourselves now - enjoy. But don't bother asking why no one wants to 'discuss' issues, when you can't hear anything that disagrees without ridiculing the poster.

__________________
yeap i said it and i still holds, but that shouldn't stop you from standing up and supporting your opinions, unless they aren't as strong as you want others to think....and if the heat of having your opinion and point of view disagreed with is too much, that also soeaks to just how strong your beliefs are also...can't take time to back up your beliefs because you view point isn't respect by those that disagree.....weak....and yes we will continue to enjoy the fact that we have the ability to post here, ty Lawrence....but others have the same ability, so not using it is on them, not those that chose to post....letz, witness, and a few others post and most often their opinions are disagreed with as they disagree with others, but they still post and share their opinions....so to question those that felt it necessary to to post and support barry and his ideals before and even in his 1st few months in office seems like the thing to do....why not voice your support for the failed ideals and policies that the one you support is trying to force on the people??? I mean it was you that said he needed time, that he was trying to control corp. greed, that he was going to fix all that was wrong...so why no respince to the many articles that come out daily that show he is not what he saud he was??? Embarrassed??? Remember you are the one that said none of this political stuff is "personal" to you.....and as for respecting others opinions, your right, when it doesn't work for me, i respect that you have the right to have an opinion one way or another, but i don't have respect for the opinion...not when it doesn't agree with mine....and i really don't remember anyone that i have ridiculed at all...please show me...opinions, yes, but not the person...

I think if you look, it is me that has been ridiculed and been called names including being called "stupid" today, but you won't find any post where i have called any member here any names.....

**cheri1122** · 11-07-2009, 03:39 PM

I'm not going to bother arguing with you, ok? Just like the many who used to participate in discussions, it's not what it used to be, and I have better things to do.
Case in point: Pjjjjj asked some very good questions, but the response was a rant on how the government has no right to require citizens to buy anything [but they do, and have done, for many years]. The answers to her questions were nowhere in evidence - so why bother to ask?
I used to enjoy the debates, but the rants are mindless and monotonous, IMO.

**chefdennis** · 11-07-2009, 03:44 PM

yea we all liked something from the old days in something in our lives, but things change...you know new members come and old members go and you have change...you know like barry and his hope and change...and as you said, In your opinion....and has for the answers to Pj, you don't like the answers so they are rants, thats ok, you are entitled to them,

and please show me where we are legally forced by the FEDERAL government to purchase anything..and don't use auto insurance as the guy in the WH did, its a state mandate, not a fed, and it is to protect a product and also to protect a loan holder if one is there..and you are not required to protect yourself, has the fed would mandate you do with the illegal mandate that the people purchase healthcare....seeya...

PS:

cheri wrote:

I'm not going to bother arguing with you, ok?

Nooo don't defend your position, that might take more time then you have....must not be too strong of an opinion ....

**FIS53** · 11-07-2009, 04:23 PM

PJ illegals here do get free healthcare! Yup our courts have told the govt to give them coverage while the govt determines their status and also if they just show up at a hospital not a problem. Did you know that the hospitals don't care whose health card you present? Happens here in the GTA a lot. Go in and present any OHIP card and get served even if the picture is not you, don't matter. Yup this is happening right now with our system even though the picture version was created to reduce the fraud (not). Only good part to ours is that you can get served sometime. Our costs for drugs are lower as well which really helps if you have to get a lot of meds.
Rob