[Dreammaker]

From the current proposed health care bill floating around congress.

One troubling provision of the House bill compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care (House bill, p. 425-430). The sessions cover highly sensitive matters such as whether to receive antibiotics and "the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration."

See the whole article: http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/...ses_179667.htm.

I recall somewhere hearing that the Dems were interested in a cradle to grave social safety net. Why is the government interested in couseling the whole senior population about how and when to die?

Make calls to your senators, congressman/congresswoman, and the president. Send emails, faxes, whatever.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Dreammaker

I recall somewhere hearing that the Dems were interested in a cradle to grave social safety net. Why is the government interested in couseling the whole senior population about how and when to die?

Because it's cheaper to give them a nudge into the grave a little quicker than it is to provide expensive life-extending treatment. You know, 'cause they're just gonna die anyway. Why put it off? Why spend all that money on someone who's gonna die regardless?

The AARP is gonna have a field day.

If they really and truly want to work out a viable universal health care plan, it's something that needs to be well thought out, over probably a year or two, and likely much longer. This is a very fundamental change in how we live, how the country operates, and is on the order of a Constitutional Amendment where it needs to be carefully studied and refined to where an overwhelming majority of the people are behind it. But they're not approaching it like that. They're trying to ramrod it down the throats of the American people in a matter of weeks, like any other bill.

This isn't about universal health care at all, it's about the government getting control of our health care dollars, and by extension, control of our lives. And they will, absolutely, have control over our lives, as they will be able to literally pick and choose who lives and who dies. This bill comes to us from the premise that the Hippocratic Oath is antiquated and outdated for modern society, not to mention from the position that the US Constitution is equally antiquated and outdated. The level to which Liberty and freedom of thought is being trounced on with this bill is astounding.

[aristotle]

End-of-life care is very expensive. I've read several health related articles explaining that the medical expenses incurred during the last six weeks of life for the typical elderly American often runs into tens, even hundreds, of thousands of dollars.

If the federal government, your friend and mine, gets to control healthcare decisions for the sick and elderly, some bureaucrats will be making life and death choices. Scarce government dollars versus the unlimited wants and needs of the people. Perhaps, the Obama administration in a rare moment of truth-telling, would aptly rename their healthcare initiative as the "Euthanasia Superfund." Mandatory DNR for the elderly without private wealth?

It's not enough for the government to seek more and more control over our lives... they now seek to control the when, where and how of our deaths.

[chefdennis]

barry and joe have already said the the sick aged and their families will have to mae decisions that they would have had to in the past.....like "pain pill" instead of cancer treatments....???

[Poorboy]

The Government Needs to Stay Out of Peoples Lives, Especially Mine! I Don't Need Any Stinking Government telling me when or How I am To Die, as I Have that Already Planned and Paid For in Advance. They Need to Stay Focused on Running This Country the Right Way, Especially with the Current Administration and Stay Out of Peoples Lives, Just That Simple!

[OntarioVanMan]

Thats a bunch a crap...I've NEVER been witness to diminished care....my Grandparents got the best of care in their final days....you guys can SCARE monger all you want...but you are full of SH!T on this conspiracy theme......

[greg334]

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

you guys can SCARE monger all you want...but you are full of SH!T on this conspiracy theme......

OVM,
Get a grip and look at the players involved in the administration on the issues. Even though there is no direct involvement, John Holdren the science czar, is one of them who can have a say in shaping policy and laws. He is a population control guy and was one of these screaming that there are too many people. Back in the late 70's had written a book called "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment" which discussed compulsory population-control laws and other forms of population control. I have this book, I pulled it out of storage and reading it now. It is not to be taken lightly.

The problem is many of them within the administration are like Ginsburg, she believed that the Roe. v. Wade case could eliminate undesirable people, or as she put it "populations that we don't want to have too many of." When you have this coming out in the open, it is just like Germany in the mid-30's or the Netherlands today where euthanasia laws were created to "help" people exit their lives with dignity.

It starts with the advisors, it starts with good intentions and it starts with the need to feed the people BS. There is no real solution for health care in this country other than getting government OUT OF IT and let the market run itself. Since 1965, government has been deepely involved but up until that time, people were not dying in the streets and still are not. Under any health care program, there has to be limitations put on people by age, disease or condition - it has been tried and tried before and proven this is the only way it can work when government gets involved.

There is no conspiracy if you look at the background of the people in the administration, like the Green Jobs Czar - Van Jones. Look into his background and ask yourself is this what I want for my country?

[OntarioVanMan]

Originally Posted by greg334

OVM,
Get a grip and look at the players involved in the administration on the issues. Even though there is no direct involvement, John Holdren the science czar, is one of them who can have a say in shaping policy and laws. He is a population control guy and was one of these screaming that there are too many people. Back in the late 70's had written a book called "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment" which discussed compulsory population-control laws and other forms of population control. I have this book, I pulled it out of storage and reading it now. It is not to be taken lightly.



The problem is many of them within the administration are like Ginsburg, she believed that the Roe. v. Wade case could eliminate undesirable people, or as she put it "populations that we don't want to have too many of." When you have this coming out in the open, it is just like Germany in the mid-30's or the Netherlands today where euthanasia laws were created to "help" people exit their lives with dignity.

It starts with the advisors, it starts with good intentions and it starts with the need to feed the people BS. There is no real solution for health care in this country other than getting government OUT OF IT and let the market run itself. Since 1965, government has been deepely involved but up until that time, people were not dying in the streets and still are not. Under any health care program, there has to be limitations put on people by age, disease or condition - it has been tried and tried before and proven this is the only way it can work when government gets involved.

There is no conspiracy if you look at the background of the people in the administration, like the Green Jobs Czar - Van Jones. Look into his background and ask yourself is this what I want for my country?

There is nothing wrong with long term planning on a long hospitalization stay and care in forward years....to make sure of the best care of the patient and the best use of equipment and staff.....as not to waste resources.....when they know at the time excluding the unexpected that the patient will be an ongoing concern.....it is something that can't be ignored and should be planned for....

BTW..i agree...get the government out....

[layoutshooter]

One thing to remember OVM, this is NOT being set up as the system in Canada. The long (2-5 year) plan is to scrap ALL private insurance and set up a government controlled single pay system, with the GOVERNMENT in charge of YOU!!

They will use this so-called HEALTH CARE SYSTEM to control EVERY aspect of your life. What you eat, drive and do for fun. IF they don't like something THEY will say it is costing the health care system too much and either outlaw it or tax it out of exsistance.

All you have to do OVM is remember one thing, Barry is YOUR friend and will look after you with love. THAT should keep you on the straight and narrow. THAT should scare the living STUFF out of you!!

[OntarioVanMan]

Originally Posted by layoutshooter

One thing to remember OVM, this is NOT being set up as the system in Canada. The long (2-5 year) plan is to scrap ALL private insurance and set up a government controlled single pay system, with the GOVERNMENT in charge of YOU!!

They will use this so-called HEALTH CARE SYSTEM to control EVERY aspect of your life. What you eat, drive and do for fun. IF they don't like something THEY will say it is costing the health care system too much and either outlaw it or tax it out of exsistance.

All you have to do OVM is remember one thing, Barry is YOUR friend and will look after you with love. THAT should keep you on the straight and narrow. THAT should scare the living STUFF out of you!!

Thats a whole different scenerio you are describing....you think something like that'll pass?...Maybe that is why some Dems are backing off....?

[layoutshooter]

I think it will be done in stages over a VERY short amount of time. Pass this now, get past the elections in 2010 and 2012 and THEN it will be amazing what we will see. This administration reminds me way too much of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. Barry, Hillary and many others have long pressed the idea of a single pay system. Many unions are pushing for it as well.

[OntarioVanMan]

It'd be stupid to pass an incomplete bill....one that would be open ended....and would end up being something completely different then the one passed.....Like signing a blank check......doh???

[layoutshooter]

Let's see, MMMM, Social Security, Wefare, SSI, Medicare, Medicade, it seems that it has happened before. DON"T TRUST THEM!! They are, after all, OMG!! POLITITIONS!!! ARRRRGGGGGG RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!

[dieseldiva]

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

It'd be stupid to pass an incomplete bill....one that would be open ended....and would end up being something completely different then the one passed.....Like signing a blank check......doh???

It's already been done, Ken, and just recently.....it's called a "placeholder".....

Michelle Malkin Here is the cap-and-tax “placeholder:” Where’s the fine print?

[dieseldiva]

Originally Posted by OntarioVanMan

There is nothing wrong with long term planning on a long hospitalization stay and care in forward years....to make sure of the best care of the patient and the best use of equipment and staff.....as not to waste resources.....when they know at the time excluding the unexpected that the patient will be an ongoing concern.....it is something that can't be ignored and should be planned for....

BTW..i agree...get the government out....

Long term planning you say?? What do you suppose happened to this woman's plans??

SALEM, Oregon, June 4, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Lung cancer patient, Barbara Wagner, was recently notified that her oncologist-prescribed medication that would slow the growth of cancer would not be covered by the Oregon Health Plan; the plan, however, she was informed, would cover doctor-assisted suicide should she wish to kill herself.
"Treatment of advanced cancer that is meant to prolong life, or change the course of this disease, is not a covered benefit of the Oregon Health Plan," read the letter notifying Wagner of the health plan's decision. Oregon, not a foreign country....right here in the good old USA....



Dr. Walter Shaffer, medical director of the state Division of Medical Assistance Programs, which administers the Oregon Health Plan, attempted to defend the health plan's decision. "We can't cover everything for everyone," he said. "We try to come up with polices that provide the most good for the most people."........SOUND FAMILIAR???


"We have been warning for years that this was a possibility in Oregon. Medicaid is rationed, meaning that some treatments are not covered. But assisted suicide is always covered. And now, Barbara Wagner was faced with that very scenario."

Full story HERE

You can't read that and tell me that something like this will not happen when all of the experts are saying that one of the ways to attempt to pay for this monstrosity is to RATION......

I don't know about you but I don't happen to think that ANYONE deserves to be treated this way.....