This is a good read!

[OntarioVanMan]

Thank You Turtle for explaining how I felt about the speech but yet I could not explain why I felt that way...must be the peace loving Canadian in me..
As General Patton said....Americans love a good battle....that describes quite a few in here...the thinking of beating your enemy down into submission...until they accept that we, America is putting a Coca-Cola bottling plant in your country...

[OntarioVanMan]

I guess if it were not for W. we'd all be dead. So the few thousand who died in Iraq would be dead anyways.

Doug..you really should at least tone down the baiting...

Every Presidents duty is protecting America and it's citizens...

[LDB]

I'll say it again, the only way to defeat this enemy from without, is from within.

Or wipe any trace of them off the planet.

[pelicn]

You and your cohorts here like to point blame at Clinton and Carter when the fact is 911 occured under W's watch and he is the one it falls on.

From the right wing news organization...now this says what???
Osama bin Laden: missed opportunities - Nightly News with Brian Williams- msnbc.com


If we are going to send our troops into a "war" then make it a war! A war is destroying our enemy. Destroy the enemy or stay home. These half azz wars Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. etc. have accomplished NOTHING but get our troops killed.

[LDB]

Oh Pelicn, now you've done it! You've provided conclusive evidence Clinton's administration screwed the pooch and is responsible for 9/11. After all, it's from MSNBC not Fox News so it's the truth. Doug's apoplexy is a certainty now.

[DougTravels]

Did you read all 3 days reports? The Wed and especially the Thur show Bush's incompetence. That allowed 911 to happen. Thanks for pointing these out really shows how incompetent W. was.

[OntarioVanMan]

Did you read all 3 days reports? The Wed and especially the Thur show Bush's incompetence. That allowed 911 to happen. Thanks for pointing these out really shows how incompetent W. was.

Doug...even a simple mind like mine knows an operation like 9/11 wasn't planned in 8 months....no one let it happen...just as in Oklahoma....it happened....

[DougTravels]

Doug...even a simple mind like mine knows an operation like 9/11 wasn't planned in 8 months....no one let it happen...just as in Oklahoma....it happened....

The planning doesn't really matter, it was executed under W's watch so the burden falls with him.

[layoutshooter]

I worked at 14 for a body shop doing odd jobs
At 16 got a job as a busboy and hated it
Took a job delivering Pizzas by 17 with 6 months of HS left made manager, and was put on a commision 20% of sales went to me and I paid all payroll out of it. I was on Co-op my senior year I just had to go in for Gov't and a half hour a week for Coop seminar. I was making more money than my folks my senior year. Averaged about 500 a week take home this was 1981.
With 2 months left of High School bought new car and my own place 18th B'day moved out of parents house.
The next year with help from my folks (Home Mortgage)we opened Dougs Pizza Depot in Madison Hgts Mi Jan 1983.
It was a real struggle and alot of pressure for a 19 year old the place had gone through 5 owners in the previous 2 years, We managed to last almost 5 years Nov 87 sold it for enough to take care of my parents house. Whew! New owner closed it within 3 months.
I married in 1986 during the pizza years. I worked for neros and Dominoes the next few months. The guy who delivered my linens Al Kramer (I owe alot to Al) put in a good word for me with Banner Linen Service a Teamster job. Things went well there for 4 yrs when we had a huge strike (7mths)they were trying to screw over the ones about to retire and force them out. (New health ins with retires to pay 400 per mth subject to increases vs 50 a month for teamsters bluecross for life).
I spoke with my father who had 3 brain tumors removed between 1978 and 1991 on easter sunday before the strike. He had been a union steward for 19 yrs he said if they roll the trucks without you, you will lose. This was the last time I ever spoke with him, he and my mom packed their pickup truck camper and went to Oklahoma to visit my Aunts family. He died of a heart attack while night fishing with my cousins on Apr28 1992. Just days before his 59th birthday.
After burying my dad in Belleville I was a terror on the picket line, I was arrested 3 times during the strike, One night sitting in Madison heights jail I got a call from Jimmy Hoffa Jr. telling me I would have to stay the night.
The strike went on and me and a couple of others became obstacles for settling because Banner wanted no part of us. The teamsters got me a job with an independent uniform co. a really good job. 6 months in they sold out to Arrow uniform and i was told with the new pay rate I would lose about 200 per week. I quit on the spot. Since my pay was cut I was elligible for about 6 months of unemployment and my wife was working.
In my basement with a credit card I started A-1 Budget Linen Service in April of 1993. That company grew out of my basement and ended up with me my wife and 4 employees running 2 routes out of a 6000 square foot building. In 2004 I was approached by a bigger company and those bas tards offered me about 30% more than my Co. was worth. I sold it and gave the 4 employees close to 40k in bonuses. They also received jobs with the new co.
After almost 11 years without a week off the wife and i relaxed for a few months. The first summer I bought an Ice cream truck and did pretty good running that no stress. The next summer I bought a retired ambulance and converted that to an ice cream truck and the wife and i ran them and did pretty well.
That fall my nephew who was a regional sales rep for Conway Now told me that there was good money in expediting so I bought this truck and here i am. The Ice cream trucks sat a yr and a half then we sold them.

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Some of the Pizza Pics won't show but if you click them they do, My Pizza place, 1325 is my dad and me at the pizzeria, me working there and my new bride working there. If you want more on my life story on my blog there are 2 family videos also. On you tube there are some videos of my daughter when she is little as well look up user nmanders8
My blood type and medical info you would have to talk to my Dr.
Now can I tell you that most of what you post is nearsighted rightwing drivel that is either outdated misplaced or just plain wrong.

Thanks for the project 007

Thank you very much Doug. This gives me a lot of insight into who and what you are. It raised a million questions but we have YEARS of boring layovers to explore those. This could be fun!!!

[Turtle]

The planning doesn't really matter, it was executed under W's watch so the burden falls with him.

Burden, yes.
Blame, no.

[DougTravels]

Burden, yes.
Blame, no.

I'd have to agree Turtle to an extent, It depends on the amount of intell that was available. That's something we will never know. He handled the burden well initially then got distracted with Iraq which was a huge blunder.

[layoutshooter]

That was a very good reply. Can't agree with it, but it was well written, and without the ranting you frequently indulge in.
The reason I disagree is that people are more than the sum of their parts, and the thinking person takes in new facts and ideas every day, causing their opinions to evolve [or sometimes, to harden.] I think you run the risk of stereotyping folks, or 'judging a book by it's cover' when you NEED to know their background before you can evaluate their statements. I'd rather judge an opinion on its' merits, than its' author, myself.
For what it's worth, I have no problem understanding what Doug says - or what you say, either. And I particularly dislike slogans, which are usually a substitute for an actual thought.

Yes, sometimes people I have judged one way have turned out to be different after I got to know them. What I have done as far as judging HAS kept me out of trouble. Not using "good judgement" almost always leads to trouble.

Opinions often do not make sense to those observing them. If the opinion is radically different to those of the observer it is often necessary to look into a person more to attempt to try to understand that opinion. The more you know about a person and thier backround the easier that becomes. That is how walls can be brought down and understanding formed.

Doug is a very passionate person, as am I. I have strong backround for the basis of my opinions. I have seen much and lost many. Doug often ridicules that. It gets me, I should not let it, but sometimes it does. Too many I know are dead and when he, or others, belittle thier sacrifice, well, it is NOT right.

From my perspective Doug's opinions are often not based in reality. They do not match up with events that I was personally very much involved in. In many cases they are total fabrications. I would love to know where he gets the information from. It does not appear from his VERY INTERESTING bio that he has much backround or first hand experiece in forgein polilcy or military affairs or history. I do not think that Doug is making things up, it appears that he was taught a lot of very wrong things. As are most in this country. It would be interesting to sit down and chat in person. Opinions do NOT have merit. Everyone has them. Opinion based on facts have merit, those based solely on feelings most times do not. We vote on our opinion. Voting is a right. A right that carries with it a grave responsiblility. Everyone is required to do everything within thier power to insure that thier beliefs are based on reality. Then you vote on that.

Yes, people cannot always be judged by the cover. Thier ideas and feelings are daily shaped. It is, however, very rare that an adult changes basic core beliefs about right and wrong. Those core values are what thier entire adult life has been based on and unless those ideas are grossly out of wack they are seldom changed.

People in general choose to associate with people of like minds. I hang around with those who share my core beliefs. They may differ on silly things like politics but not in important areas.

My marriage is a good example. I met my wife in church. We share a similar faith, ideas about family and the sanctity of marriage. That compatibility in core values and beliefs are one of the two main reasons we have stayed married for 36 years come the 30th of the month. The other main reason is that divorce was never an option in our life. When problems arise we work together to work them out. The harder times get the closer we grow together. We are NOT in compitition with each other, we are a team.

As to the ranting that I sometimes indulge in, I too am a very passionate person. It is also a defence mechinisum. If I blow off the steam in a mostly harmless rant I don't go around "knuckeling" peoples heads. I am Italian you know. We rant, rave, wave our hands about wildly and yell and scream till we turn purple. Then we make you a pot of homemade sauce.

[greg334]

Hey Doug I'm wondering where was Doug's pizza Depot?

[DougTravels]

327 w 11 mile madison heights, just west of John R, Directly next door to where a Jets now is. The building was divided into 3 store fronts it is now 1 business. Between Alger and Palmer.

[LDB]

So Doug, Obama is responsible for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler then since both bankruptcies happened under his watch? After all, they were within the last month and he's been president for several months now.