A proposed ban

**bryan** · 05-07-2009, 08:40 PM

Hi

I feel that the problem with this forum is that everyone is wasting time trying to find someone to blame instead of trying to find a solution to the problems.

I dare each of you to post a viable solution to a problem,be it(political, economical or enviromental) without pionting the finger at someone else.

**OntarioVanMan** · 05-07-2009, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by bryan

Hi

I feel that the problem with this forum is that everyone is wasting time trying to find someone to blame instead of trying to find a solution to the problems.

I dare each of you to post a viable solution to a problem,be it(political, economical or enviromental) without pionting the finger at someone else.

Now I am speechless...thanks!!

**Tennesseahawk** · 05-07-2009, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by bryan

Hi

I feel that the problem with this forum is that everyone is wasting time trying to find someone to blame instead of trying to find a solution to the problems.

I dare each of you to post a viable solution to a problem,be it(political, economical or enviromental) without pionting the finger at someone else.

Are you talking a personal solution, or national? I'll give you my answers to both.

Me: Do my best to survive the depression (yes, Michigan is in a depression now). Campaign for Romney/Paul in the next election.

Nationally: We put Romney/Paul in the White House.

I like Palin, but we need someone who knows what's going on to help Romney fix this crap.

**Steady Eddie** · 05-07-2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by layoutshooter

Head in the clouds is FAR nicer than where I would say most polititions have thier heads!!!!!

Layoutshooter

What are you trying to say?????

**Turtle** · 05-07-2009, 11:30 PM

I think we should ban posts about banning free speech.

If you're got something to say, say it.

**Turtle** · 05-08-2009, 12:12 AM

Yeah, so if ya wanna talk about Kool-Aid, or the annoying use thereof, have at it.

**OntarioVanMan** · 05-08-2009, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Turtle

Yeah, so if ya wanna talk about Kool-Aid, or the annoying use thereof, have at it.

you rock...

**Turtle** · 05-08-2009, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by letzrockexpress

If I recall correctly, the Kool-Aid reference comes from the mass suicide of some wacko cult that occured out around San Diego in the mid 90's.

You recall incorrectly. That was the Heaven's Gate, the UFO based religious group led by Marshall Applewhite, who looked eerily like Uncle Martin from My Favorite Martian.

They didn't drink Kool Aid. These were mature adult loons. None of that lowbrow kiddie stuff. They killed themselves by enjoying a cосktail of phenobarbital and vodka, on the rocks, and then, juuuust to make sure, secured plastic bags over their heads. Each had a crisp $5 bill and three quarters in their pockets. All were identially dressed in black shirts and sweatpants, and brand new Nike sneakers, with each also wearing an armband proclaiming "Heaven's Gate Away Team". Too much Star Trek. Their deaths in 1997 coincided with the arrival of Hale-Bopp comet. Beam me up, Scotty.

The Kool Aid term is derived from the 1978 Jonestown Massacre (Jonestown, Guyana) where Jim Jones, leader of The Peoples Temple, instructed his followers to drink potassium cyanide laced grape Kool Aid as part of a Revolutionary Suicide. It was felt, and subsequently determined, that many of the "followers" were there against their will, particularly some of the children. Concerned Relatives and others demanded an investigation, which prompted Congressman Leo Ryan (D-CA) to visit Jonestown. After an investigation that did not go well for Jim Jones and his followers, Ryan and 5 others were murdered at the airstrip as they were about to leave, which prompted Jones to issue the Revolutionary Suicide.

Be that as it may, the Kool Aid term as used today does not mean to "in effect is asking or directing somebody to kill themselves merely for disagreeing with their philosophy of life." That's not how metaphors (or figures of speech) work.

The term "drinking the Kool Aid" or "Kool Aid drinkers" is used to mean someone who becomes a firm believer in something, who accepts an argument or philosophy blindly and without question, just like the followers of Jim Jones did when they drank the Kool Aid without question. It is also a metaphor for how things can sometimes go really bad when you accept things blindly, unquestioned. It is not a metaphor for inducing suicide, sorry.

Most of you who use this term wouldn't know that though because you board the clichet' freight train like a hobo, without knowing where it came from or where it is going....

Knowing the origin of a term is not a requisite for using it as a figure of speech to convey a particular metaphorical meaning. In this case, the meaning of the term is usually quite clear to those who use and hear it, and knowing the origin of the term is irrelevant. What's not good is trying to apply the literal meaning to the metaphor, as it conveys an incorrect meaning.

The reverse of that, in being totally ignorant of the origin of something, can also be just as bad. For example, there are many Christians who believe, to the core of their very soul, that the "X" in "Xmas" was deliberately invented to take the Christ out of Christmas and is a symptom and symbol of the commercialization of the holiday. They believe this without question. You know, like, uhm, on faith. Ironic, I think.

That's what the ignorance of Classical Languages gets you.

Its origins actually come from the fact that the first letter in the Greek word for 'Christ' is 'chi,' and the Greek letter 'chi' is represented by a symbol virtually indistinguishable the letter 'X' in the modern Roman alphabet. The word "Christ" has been abbreviated for more than 1000 years, sometimes by the "chi" and sometimes by the first two letters, X and P, or XP. The Labarum, a very old Christian symbol for Christ, is also known as the "chi-rho", which is the superimpositon of the X and the P (rho) together. The chi and the chi-rho both were used by scholars and monks to make notations in the margins of scrolls, and later printed books, for particularly important or "good" passages, as the chi-rho combination stands for "chreston", which means "good". It was also those printed books, thanks to the Gutenberg Press, that brought the abbreviation into the mainsteam, since it was a much more efficient use of ink and paper to set up the type for Xmas than it was to use all those extra letters in spelling it out. It wasn't a slight then, and it's not a slight now.

But people see Xmas and the freak out, regardless of the fact that it's been in continuous use in the English language for a really, really long time.

Kool Aid, anyone?

**LDB** · 05-08-2009, 06:00 AM

As usual Turtle had the patience for a much more detailed response than I. My impatient version is koolaid drinker has nothing to do with suggesting suicide to anyone. It also refers to the Jonestown murders but that has nothing to do with it's metaphorical use. It's use, in the context of the soapbox, is to suggest those who brainlessly follow a flawed, damaged, insane, idiotic, moronic etc. leader to eventual doom even when other (intelligent) options are available.

**witness23** · 05-08-2009, 09:59 AM

Tenneseahawk, "Prove it... I dare ya! I might've mentioned kool-aid 9 times out of ALL my posts".

You my friend sound like a child.

**witness23** · 05-08-2009, 10:12 AM

[QUOTE=cheri1122;304064][COLOR=Purple][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial Black]I couldn't agree more, Witness: wading through the same tired cliches over and over does little to promote respect for the viewpoint of the poster. Maybe we just expected too much when the Soapbox was envisioned as a place for reasoned debate & opinions, but I still think it can be done. [The recent posts by Mr G and 'Rocket'

among others, are an example]
I'd also include a ban on anything other than proper names: Obama, Republicans, Democrats, etc. The level of disrespect displayed by the cutesy pejoratives is immature, [not to mention tiresome] IMO. As much as I disliked Bush, I seldom referred to him as "the Shrub" except in my head, because he was still the President, no matter how I felt.
Like my daddy always told me: "If you want to be treated as an adult, you need to act like one."

Amen cheri!!!! Very well said.

NextOut · 05-08-2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by letzrockexpress

O.K., wrong mass suicide. Sheweee... a long way to go for nothing. What a waste of cyber ink.

Yeah, what he said.

**chefdennis** · 05-08-2009, 10:24 AM

Witness wrote in response to Tenn. hawk:

You my friend sound like a child.

HAWKKK!!!! "Hi mrs Hawk, Can Hawk come out and play!?!? We need him to play 2nd base!!!!" Hey Hawk, bring your good louisville slugger too!!!

**Tennesseahawk** · 05-08-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by witness23

Tenneseahawk, "Prove it... I dare ya! I might've mentioned kool-aid 9 times out of ALL my posts".

You my friend sound like a child.

I was being sarcastic, but it was YOU who called me out, when others have used that term WAY more than I. Not a big deal, as I have no qualms using the term when I see someone drinking the big D kool-aid.

If I sound like a child, it's because I am curled up in the fetal position in my bunk, trying not to cry for a nurse from Momobama's teet.

But you, my friend, sound like you need an enema.

**Tennesseahawk** · 05-08-2009, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by chefdennis

Witness wrote in response to Tenn. hawk:

HAWKKK!!!! "Hi mrs Hawk, Can Hawk come out and play!?!? We need him to play 2nd base!!!!" Hey Hawk, bring your good louisville slugger too!!!

Hey Chef! Be out in a minute! I told you I broke that bat on the TV on Jan 20th. Let's play football instead!