Sanitize the War?

**aristotle** · 02-26-2009, 02:25 PM

As I delivered a government load to Dover AFB a few weeks ago, a hearse was leaving the gates. I concluded another fallen soldier was coming home. It was Bush's policy to not allow any media coverage of the flag draped coffins being returned, lest it erode public support for the war.

Today, Fox News is reporting Obama will change the policy giving family members the option of media coverage. It places that decision on the family. Seems reasonable to me.

**pjjjjj** · 02-26-2009, 03:45 PM

Imagine that! Dang socialist giving the people a choice!

**aristotle** · 02-26-2009, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by pjjjjj

Imagine that! Dang socialist giving the people a choice!

Yeah , he is a *#&#!! socialist. I din't agree with many Bush policies and even fewer Obama policies. I just hope allowing families the choice of media coverage isn't exploited by the likes of Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann as a tool for left-wing propaganda. The left has a long, shameful record for just that. I suspect, though, they will revert to type. We shall see.

**Turtle** · 02-26-2009, 04:03 PM

Bush Sr put that policy in effect in 1991 and it's been left in place ever since. I can understand it being a problem for an individual, at the funeral, where the individual is identified. That should be left up to the family as to whether or not they want clicking cameras intruding on a supremely private matter. Outbound caskets are cargo and are stacked like cord wood, but inbound flag-draped coffins are treated with an astounding amount of reverence and respect. The pictures below are some of the most patriotic pictures I've ever seen.

**Turtle** · 02-26-2009, 04:05 PM

**Turtle** · 02-26-2009, 04:09 PM

Tunisia, 1943
15 miles south of Mateur an American flag flies at half-mast over graves of 500 soldiers killed during the North African campaign while bugler plays taps over flag draped coffin as others salute.

**aristotle** · 02-26-2009, 04:16 PM

Turtle... those are very respectful photos. Beautiful in their solemnity. I suspect, but can't be sure, they were taken by a military servicemember. My concern is giving editorial control over to MSNBC and their cohorts. We live in an open society (I think) so despite my misgivings, it's better to give final say to families. But, put the media on notice to leave the families in peace.

**Turtle** · 02-26-2009, 04:35 PM

Except for the last one, all of the others were taken by military personnel. Well, the top three pictures, anyway, were taken by a military contractor who lost her job over it, when the pictures found their way onto the pages of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.
The local Seattle story here: [link deleted because the Seattle Post-Intelligencer has removed that page from their Web site, probably because of all the hits it's now getting from the recent lifting of the ban]

And a little better story from a couple of different angles and the background of how it all happened here:
Mission statement ? how I feel about the picture itself and what it means

**chefdennis** · 02-26-2009, 06:19 PM

Thanks Turtle! Some of those i had seen before, but see them all in one place like that makes one sit back for a bit. Again Thank you...

Yes it was Bush Sr. The started keeping the press away, and I can't say it was a bad idea, but certainly allowing the family to make the final decision is well and good.....

**layoutshooter** · 02-26-2009, 08:31 PM

As the father and uncle of active military members and a former soldier I can say that those kinds of pictures are VERY personal and private. IF the family wants to release them that is thier choice. I would JAIL anyone who release them without WRITTEN, NOTORIZED permision of the family/families involved. I would shoot anyone who released them without permission. Layoutshooter

**Turtle** · 02-27-2009, 01:47 AM

"As the father and uncle of active military members and a former soldier I can say that those kinds of pictures are VERY personal and private."

Hogwash. There's nothing personal or private about an unidentified flag draped casket, especially when it's a group of them. There's not even any personally identifiable information on the caskets themselves, so that those who are carrying them up the ramp and into the plane have no idea who is in there. That way, everybody gets treated with the same respect.

**Pilgrim** · 02-27-2009, 11:12 AM

Since the announcement of this change in policy, I've been wondering how it will actually be enforced. Take the 2d picture from the top for example: there are sixteen anonymous caskets visible. If family X's son is the middle casket in the second row, do they have veto rights for the publication of that picture, assuming they even know it was or is going to be taken? Will there be a statement to be signed in their transfer documents stating that no publicity is to be allowed?

I can understand how this policy can be implimented if the govt. is dealing with one individual casket being returned to a family in rural Kansas. I don't see how it would be practical with large groups as seen in some of these pictures.

I can also imagine what the mainstream media can and probably will do the next time we get into a war that has even moderate casualties. Remember how ABC's This Week would run the names of military casualties in Iraq with funeral music in the background at the end of their show? Now, with the aid of photo software they can run endless rows of flag-draped caskets along with these names to make an even greater impression of the horrors of war on their viewers. With the Obama administration cheering from the sidelines, it's easy to see how this new policy could be abused by the anti-war media and left wing radical groups. There is no altruism in this decision by the Obama administration - they did it for their own political advantage and will use it to further their anti-war policies.

One last point that's somewhat related: has anyone noticed how Commander-in-Chief Barack Hussein Obama NEVER gives credit to the accomplishments of our military in Iraq when talking about his plans for drawing down troops and ending the war there. During his most recent speech he only spoke about ending the war in the "proper manner" and never once gave credit to our military for the drastically improved situation that exists there now thanks to the sacrifices of our soldiers. Instead of appropriately declaring victory in Iraq, he treats it like another Viet Nam - remaining true to his radical liberal agenda and his left-wing supporters.

**layoutshooter** · 02-27-2009, 05:35 PM

It is NOT hogwash to me. The only reason they would use those kinds of pics today would be for the wrong reasons. It would NOT be to honor those who gave thier all. I tell you one thing for sure, if I ever get a phone call from any news organization to use pics of a reletives casket they will have to be building a few more. I am just totally fed up with the attitude of many in this country starting with Osama Obama and on down. I have no beef with you Turtle, you see things from a different point of view. I don't believe you would dis-respect those caskets or families, Obama and his scum have and would. I don't like him or trust him. EVERYTHING I have seen or heard from him so far has just plain sucked. About the only thing I can say he as done right so far is go to sleep. He should do it more often, like Rip Van Winkle. Layoutshooter

**SHARP327** · 02-28-2009, 12:38 AM

I can't keep quiet and not put my 2 cents worth in!

I'm glad to see that the media is now allowed to take pictures like the ones I just viewed that were posted by Turtle as long as it's not at a funeral or personal family time.

It really gets me mad the way the government has tried sugar coating things in the past!
those are real people that have been killed not just numbers and you can bet your a.. that 99% of those fallen Heroes are not from the homes of politicians.

It's always easier to send someone else's daughter or son to war as long as it's not your own especially when it's for your own monetary gain....war crimes comes to mind.

The President has been praising our military all along and continues to do so.

**layoutshooter** · 02-28-2009, 10:02 AM

The current resident of the White House has been anti-military his entire life. He stood on the floor of the Senate and accused the military of targeting women and children and using rape as a weapon. Those are the tactics of our enemy, not ours. He says he is going to cut the DOD budget by 10% and eleminate the F22. If he wants to use those pictures it will be for all the wrong reasons. It will not be to honor those who have fallen. This war is going to heat up fast. The numbers of the dead and wounded will grow. Obama will use these kinds of pics to push his anti-war propaganda. The policies he is following will prolong this war by many years and lead to a hugh increase in the numbers of deaths. One thing I do find interesting, the last time I looked there were 3 sons of Senators who had either served or were serving in Iraq. I think Joe Biden's son was one of them. If that is correct that is a much higher percentage of sons or daughters of Senators serving than common folk. Layoutshooter